Requests: RP Laws [RPC]

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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:01 am

lewiselder1 wrote:For clarity; even if it’s not necessarily 100% rule correct, this is the best path in our eyes just to be able to move forward practically assuming that nobody is harmed by the old one being deemed invalid. If you see what I mean


I was harmed that RP Law being ruled valid when it was invalid. Do you get me?
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby lewiselder1 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:32 am

House Spencer wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:For clarity; even if it’s not necessarily 100% rule correct, this is the best path in our eyes just to be able to move forward practically assuming that nobody is harmed by the old one being deemed invalid. If you see what I mean


I was harmed that RP Law being ruled valid when it was invalid. Do you get me?


Not really, you may have to explain what you mean there, sorry.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:09 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:
House Spencer wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:For clarity; even if it’s not necessarily 100% rule correct, this is the best path in our eyes just to be able to move forward practically assuming that nobody is harmed by the old one being deemed invalid. If you see what I mean


I was harmed that RP Law being ruled valid when it was invalid. Do you get me?


Not really, you may have to explain what you mean there, sorry.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Christ...

Would you please answer my question? Why is it on Jul 25 Mods said that RP Law was VALID, & now you are saying it was INVALID and even offering to DELETE it?
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby lewiselder1 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:46 pm

House Spencer wrote:Would you please answer my question? Why is it on Jul 25 Mods said that RP Law was VALID, & now you are saying it was INVALID and even offering to DELETE it?


As I said, if we look at rules, it IS valid. But for clarity's sake and for ease and practicality we're acting as if it wasn't so we can move on. In other words, we've invalidated it because to have them both be valid is an unnecessary and confusing effort.
I go by Ashley now and use she/her pronouns. This is a really old account, I don’t play now.

I was a mod in classic for a bit, then I helped make Marcapada and WM there for a while. As of 2020 I’m co-ordinating Pachapay’s development.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:48 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:
House Spencer wrote:Would you please answer my question? Why is it on Jul 25 Mods said that RP Law was VALID, & now you are saying it was INVALID and even offering to DELETE it?


As I said, if we look at rules, it IS valid. But for clarity's sake and for ease and practicality we're acting as if it wasn't so we can move on. In other words, we've invalidated it because to have them both be valid is an unnecessary and confusing effort.


This is making no sense and is frustrating

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576058

Please explain how this "RP Law" was valid with specific reference to the bolded parts of the aforementioned rules:

i.To create an RP law you must: clearly label it as an RP Law, pass it through your nation's legislature with either a simple majority of seats if it is a regular law or a ⅔ majority of seats if it is a constitutional law and reference it clearly in your nation’s “Bills under debate” section. To query a new RP law’s legality a user should post on the RP Law Query Thread.
ii.To overturn or abolish an RP law you must pass a bill with a simple majority which explicitly mentions which law you are scrapping and provides a link to the original law. You should then post a link to the bill on the RP Law Dismissal Thread.
iii.An RP law must not contradict game mechanics or the game rules, or force users to act a certain way OOC. Additionally they cannot ban types of parties (without considerable RP justification) or users. RP Laws must also not force users to vote in a particular way.
iv.Moderation reserves the right to declare any RP law invalid in exceptional circumstances.


As well please explain why (ii) is not being followed. If it is "unnecessary and confusing" why is that requerement even there????

With greatest respect sir I feel Mods are in a mess over the rules and I have suffered unfairly as a result.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Occam » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:22 pm

House Spencer wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:
House Spencer wrote:Would you please answer my question? Why is it on Jul 25 Mods said that RP Law was VALID, & now you are saying it was INVALID and even offering to DELETE it?


As I said, if we look at rules, it IS valid. But for clarity's sake and for ease and practicality we're acting as if it wasn't so we can move on. In other words, we've invalidated it because to have them both be valid is an unnecessary and confusing effort.


This is making no sense and is frustrating

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576058

Please explain how this "RP Law" was valid with specific reference to the bolded parts of the aforementioned rules:

i.To create an RP law you must: clearly label it as an RP Law, pass it through your nation's legislature with either a simple majority of seats if it is a regular law or a ⅔ majority of seats if it is a constitutional law and reference it clearly in your nation’s “Bills under debate” section. To query a new RP law’s legality a user should post on the RP Law Query Thread.
ii.To overturn or abolish an RP law you must pass a bill with a simple majority which explicitly mentions which law you are scrapping and provides a link to the original law. You should then post a link to the bill on the RP Law Dismissal Thread.
iii.An RP law must not contradict game mechanics or the game rules, or force users to act a certain way OOC. Additionally they cannot ban types of parties (without considerable RP justification) or users. RP Laws must also not force users to vote in a particular way.
iv.Moderation reserves the right to declare any RP law invalid in exceptional circumstances.


As well please explain why (ii) is not being followed. If it is "unnecessary and confusing" why is that requerement even there????

With greatest respect sir I feel Mods are in a mess over the rules and I have suffered unfairly as a result.

"Legislation excluding foreign policy matters will only be effective within the territory of the Free Republic due to the autonomy of the regions." This merely acknowledges what was already the case due to role-play. So, whether the bill is "legit" or not, fact is that most of Jelbania is occupied and not under the control of the Jelbaninan government.
You can cherry-pick your facts as much as you want, the result remains the same.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:55 pm



Clutching at that straw wont help you. Even if this messing with Jelbania WAS done by RP and no bill (which is riducluous) it would STILL break game mechanics. Not bending them a tiddly bit but like totaly fucking them up so they make no sense.

But can we please for now focus on the questions I asked the Mod if thats OK
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Occam » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:05 pm

House Spencer wrote:But can we please for now focus on the questions I asked the Mod if thats OK

Sure, if you stop mixing them with claims and false presuppositions.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:08 pm

Occam wrote:
House Spencer wrote:But can we please for now focus on the questions I asked the Mod if thats OK

Sure, if you stop mixing them with claims and false presuppositions.


but I'm not doing that you are. lets continune this in pm if you want.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Auditorii » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:20 pm

I think I can assist Moderation in solving this entire issue; theres a few inherit powers that Moderation have and the Game Rules specific.

Number one and overall is this: "Due to the changing nature of the game and its community Moderation reserve the right to make exceptions to the rules in exceptional circumstances."

The second overall is: "6(a) Role Play is a large part of Particracy, however it is not compulsory and as a general rule the game mechanics always “come first.”"

So prior to ANY of the rules located in 6(3)(I)/(II)/(III) these two rules persist. I do however agree that Moderation should clarify these rules because they can get a little confusing.

E. Role-play Laws
(I) In order to first create an RP Law it must be labeled as such. In order to label an RP Law properly it must either be named as such in the title ("bill title"), in the comments section of the bill during it's initial posting or an OOC portion of the bill description;
(II) RP Laws that are non-constitutional it must pass by a simple majority of seats; if it is a constitutional law or a law that grants extraordinary (dictatorial, very specific, etc.) powers it must have a ⅔ majority of seats;
(III) RP Laws must be referenced or a copy placed in the "Bills Under Debate" section, this is done for reference. If an RP Law is not posted within 30 days of of passage, the RP Law is considered invalid;
(IV) In order to overturn or abolish RP you must pass a bill with a simple majority voting for the revocation which provides a link to the original passage of the law and states that it is being repealed. The revocation bill should be then placed in the "RP Law Dismissal Thread" in order to be judged if needbe;
(V) RP Laws should generally not contradict game mechanics and cannot directly contravene game rules, this does not mean that Moderation will not accept RP Laws that do that. Any RP Law that might go against either of these can be judged in the "RP Law Query Thread" which Moderation and the GRC can provide input and Moderation will provide a final ruling;
(VI) RP Laws cannot ban certain political party types (ideologies, religions, etc.) without considerable RP justification, RP Laws cannot ban specific users from nations, RP Laws cannot force users to act a certain way OOC, RP Laws cannot be used to vote a particular way with the exception of: mandatory early elections triggered by a percentage of seats being vacant (this section can be amended by Moderation to include the ever changing scope of RP Laws);
(VII) Moderation reserves the right to declare RP Laws valid or invalid in exceptional circumstances.


I offer Moderation these to adopt wholly or with specific parts. As a former Moderator myself I understand the complexities that present themselves in these situations and I remind ALL users that at the end of the day Moderation has, had and always will reserve the right to enforce, make, remove and otherwise manage the game and it's rule as they see fit.
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