Hmm

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Hmm

Postby Molotov » Mon May 04, 2009 6:09 pm

This thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=110

If we're not going to have a ban on swearing outside of Off-Topic, can we at least have a ban on being a stupid arsehole.

Now, before Jethro or George says 'but Malleovic was being whiny, wah wah' or whatever, so what? That's none of your business, if Wouter found his complaining about the speed of development irritating, I'm sure he'd say so. Am I the only person worried about new players being turned away from both Particracy and P2 by the attitude of people on the forum, including moderators?

JosephJ wasn't particularly rude or anything, but the OP deserved more than a simple 'no'. Why could he not have said: 'No, Wouter likes to work alone, sorry. Thanks for your offer though' or 'No, we're not looking for people to help develop the game, thanks for offering though.' There's nothing wrong with common courtesy and it should be expected from a moderator, as a representative of the game.

Jethro in particular is a pompous arsehole:

Jethro wrote:You're still a whiny little noob, so you can be forgiven for trying to call me out as someone to be intellectually trifled with. I can already spot you as one of those pissant closet-case teenagers who think having a keyboard and the capacity for a few pithy insults makes you tough. You remind me of the little kid I invariably run into who thinks sweeping his hand across my side of the chess board counts as a legitimate tactic. The difference is those kids deserve gentle good humor, you deserve ridicule and disdain.

If you weren't such a goddamn noob (and this is the last instance I will grant that to you as a defense) you would know that double-posting is one of the faggiest moves you can pull. Quite literally. It shows that you are either a complete fucking moron or a self-righteous prick with a sense of entitlement.


Nice post from Jethro there, King of the Particracy Forums issuing his judgement from on high.

I wonder if anyone forgot to mention to you, Jethro, that the aim is not to discourage anyone and everyone from playing Particracy by being a complete prick? I know, it's an easy mistake to make, don't worry.
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Re: Hmm

Postby GreekIdiot » Mon May 04, 2009 6:19 pm

Molotov wrote:Now, before jethro or George says 'but Malleovic was being whiny, wah wah' or whatever...


Actually no, exclude me from that hypothesis. I was merely satisfying my personal ego with regards to controversial discussions on which I can satisfactorily present my position without the need of holding a rather specialized attitude. I have nothing personal with any of the people I stood against, trust me when I say it, I just found it annoying how demanding new players are. Also, I hate the same old bickering argument that I am a child and immature debater. That attitude, which was clearly indicated by both Malleovic and Louis should also be considered on your list of people of the class "being a stupid arsehole.. I all fairness, that ain't fair either. Sorry Molotov if you really saw me as an ignorant teenager who knows nothing more than yelling, and setting aside the fact that I adore internet discussions of such controversy, that attitude isn't going to do any good either.

JJ is an ice cold killa. Trust me, I've driven him crazy with my PM's about certain matters involving moderation and got the same negative response if not something worse. No hard feelings though, I find it funny.

Am I the only person worried about new players being turned away from both Particracy and P2 by the attitude of people on the forum, including moderators?


Moderation has done nothing to discourage new players from playing the games. And people on the forum like debating without being drunk most of the times - that doesn't mean those particular people you are referring to want new players to be turned away. Jess is a clear survivor example!
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Re: Hmm

Postby Molotov » Mon May 04, 2009 6:32 pm

George wrote:Sorry Molotov if you really saw me as an ignorant teenager who knows nothing more than yelling, and setting aside the fact that I adore internet discussions of such controversy, that attitude isn't going to do any good either.


I'm not commenting on your character or what you do or do not like to do, George, but I think that threads about the games should not be derailed into slagging matches or silly 'controversial' arguments, for the good of the game.

No hard feelings though, I find it funny.


I don't, personally I think it's bad moderation. If JosephJ doesn't want to deal politely with players, even if those players are annoying arseholes, he shouldn't be a moderator. JosephJ wasn't the problem though really, it was what happened to the thread and the way both you and Jethro overreacted, on Wouter's behalf, to the posts of a new player and turned the thread into a silly argument. Most places don't allow that kind of thing, I think it's fine in Off-Topic, but shouldn't be allowed in threads about the game.

edit: I'm not picking on you George, I don't blame you for doing something you're allowed to do. I just think people shouldn't be allowed :)
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Re: Hmm

Postby jethro » Mon May 04, 2009 6:49 pm

I actually did not intend at first to drag it out into a major argument. I initially was trying to just let them know that constantly insisting on answers and complaining about the state of the game did them no credit. Fuck, my first post (and what i thought would be my only post) was to ask Malleovic how many of his posts on the forum had not been somehow related to complaints about the game. My next post or two after that were of a similar nature.

After that, however, Molotov is right. I enjoyed their overreactions so much I did everything I could to keep goading them for my own personal amusement. It's hard sometimes to resist the temptation to frustrate the hell out of people you dislike when they take the bait so easily. I was curious to see how many more angry and condescending posts I could elicit from Mall and L_B before one of us lost interest in it. Was it wrong for me to do? Probably. Again, I'm sorry, I fell for the temptation to prod some arrogant newbies with a stick to watch them squeal and snarl.

Though I think your concerns about driving away newbies is unfounded. Most Particracy players either choose to stay fully in the game itself, or they become involved in the forum in all its aspects. Mall and L_B seem to occupy a twilight existence between those two modes of play, and I wouldn't worry about losing them as players since they have on several occasions made it quite clear they heartily detest this game. I reckon at worst we'd drive them off the forum they'd start just playing the game itself, but I figure that is unlikely given how easily they were sucked headfirst into a pointless argument I stated explicitly I was creating entirely for my own amusement.
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Re: Hmm

Postby JosephJ » Mon May 04, 2009 7:19 pm

Molotov wrote:I don't, personally I think it's bad moderation. If JosephJ doesn't want to deal politely with players, even if those players are annoying arseholes, he shouldn't be a moderator.

Woah, woah, woah. I'm missing where I was impolite here, honestly. Direct, yes. A tad too presumptive, yes. Yet, impolite?

I'll be quite frank here and admit it - yes, it was perhaps a mistake not to elaborate on this point. I am generally not very good at wording things in what would be considered a 'polite' manner, or really just avoiding offending/annoying/infuriating/etc people (this sort of situation happens far more than it should do, both in RL at school and home, and on other forums).

I however must now apologise to Sergio (and I suppose Mall as well, given that he seems to have taken up his cause) - I didn't mean to cause any offense, it's just simply that there's absolutely no place for them as moderators, for various reasons - including how new they are, how much we don't particularly need new moderation for P2 as of yet, and in Sergio's case, how he barely speaks English.
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Re: Hmm

Postby Mr.Yankees » Mon May 04, 2009 7:46 pm

I will make my voice heard now.

JosephJ, I admire your blunt response. I am like that myself. Sometimes there is no need to explain something and me the "argument" go on for more time. However, in this case, I do agree that a more explanatory response would have been appropriate such as the one you just provided (they are new players, ect.)

As for George and jethro's actions. Well, I won't comment on what they did or didn't dp. They are free to do what they want and we are all different. Some of us get a "high" on being rude or in making people suffer. That's the beauty of humanity. We have everything different kind of human being you can think of.

Molotov, to be honest, I don't think people are being driven away from Particracy (if they are) for this specific instance. I do think that the actions of the players here (that includes myself) are the ones driving the new players away. We are a very closed group. We rarely get new players and when we do, we drive them away with our rules, our nice and polite attitudes, or our great desire to control everything that goes around (that last one may be describing me). So, must of us are used to the others' way of doing things since we are the only ones who are active enough to do anything. Already established players do not leave the game because of others' actions, they leave because they need to or want to.

Now, do we need a better strategy to attract or to keep new players? The answer is yes. Are our actions (not in this case) responsible for driving away new players, probably. The moderation team is really not to blame unless you count bluntness as something bad, which in my eyes is not rude or inappropriate.

Molotov, I think you are doing a good job in bringing up these issues. They are worthy of discussion. We need people to point out our mistakes. Don't listen to what we say, keep doing it if you think it merits attention. I personally liked the Swearing discussion.
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Re: Hmm

Postby JuliaAJA » Wed May 06, 2009 12:44 am

George S.K wrote:
Molotov wrote:Am I the only person worried about new players being turned away from both Particracy and P2 by the attitude of people on the forum, including moderators?


Moderation has done nothing to discourage new players from playing the games. And people on the forum like debating without being drunk most of the times - that doesn't mean those particular people you are referring to want new players to be turned away. Jess is a clear survivor example!


I am worried, but I'm just good at being told to shut up and called names. Thank my sister.
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