Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

In-Game and Forum requests and complaints.

Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Aquinas » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:16 am

Mr.God wrote:I would also like to ask you not to make inflamatory comments or allegations towards either me or CM. we dont hate homosexuals and we look at every case objectively.


Respectfully, neither Chengher nor anyone else here has even remotely suggested that.

Mr.God wrote:But there is no proper background RP justifying a homosexual takeover of Hulstria, and with no proper background i mean no background at all. And we have told you this over and over again.


The RP Chengher is engaged with in Hulstria, with the homosexual supremacist ideology, is certainly unusual, but it has been accompanied by RP, as can be seen from Hulstria's news thread and in-game bills. The regime Chengher is RPing has had more RP substantiation than some other unusual/controversial RPs which have been permitted in the past. I am thinking in particular of the decisions to permit the RP of Ahmadi (Muslim) regimes coming to power in Dorvik and Beiteynu, despite the fact those nations (which are both supposedly "Culturally Protected") have hardly any Ahmadi population, and despite the fact there had been next to no RP done in either case.

So far, two different Moderators have given completely different explanations for why this renaming request was rejected, and neither of them as of yet makes much sense. Please would it be possible for Moderation to provide some clarity as to how this decision was taken, citing relevant sections from the Game Rules where appropriate?
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Doc » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:40 am

Just finna cut in here:

Badara has been renamed:

الامراض الوراثية احمديه سلطنة بادارة (The Hereditary Ahmadi Sultanate of Badara)

as of 20 minutes from now.

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=595985

Thank you.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Mr.God » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 am

Respectfully, neither Chengher nor anyone else here has even remotely suggested that.


He certainly did, i would refer to his post before my response as it clearly showed "suspicion" of us being anti homosexual for some reason

The RP Chengher is engaged with in Hulstria, with the homosexual supremacist ideology, is certainly unusual, but it has been accompanied by RP, as can be seen from Hulstria's news thread and in-game bills. The regime Chengher is RPing has had more RP substantiation than some other unusual/controversial RPs which have been permitted in the past. I am thinking in particular of the decisions to permit the RP of Ahmadi (Muslim) regimes coming to power in Dorvik and Beiteynu, despite the fact those nations (which are both supposedly "Culturally Protected") have hardly any Ahmadi population, and despite the fact there had been next to no RP done in either case.

So far, two different Moderators have given completely different explanations for why this renaming request was rejected, and neither of them as of yet makes much sense. Please would it be possible for Moderation to provide some clarity as to how this decision was taken, citing relevant sections from the Game Rules where appropriate?


The situations in Dorvik and Beiteynu have also been firmly rejected by moderation and the GRC, yes, this may have taken some time, but we did reject both situations and as you may have noticed both nations have been preserved. To suggest they have been "permitted" is confusing and simply not true. The RP that Chengher has been making is unrealistic and the RP he has made is non logical and does not in any way justify the change into a "gay" regime within such a small timespan.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Aquinas » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:25 pm

Mr.God wrote:
Respectfully, neither Chengher nor anyone else here has even remotely suggested that.


He certainly did, i would refer to his post before my response as it clearly showed "suspicion" of us being anti homosexual for some reason


Perhaps my use of the term "even remotely suggested that" was misplaced, but still, with respect, you are over-reacting. He did not actually accuse anybody of homophobia, he was questioning what was going on. To be fair, he was justified in asking for a proper explanation, given that Moderation had rather peculiarly declared the term "Gay" to be an "offensive variable" in a nation title. CM's statement was somewhat open to interpretation.

Mr.God wrote:The situations in Dorvik and Beiteynu have also been firmly rejected by moderation and the GRC, yes, this may have taken some time, but we did reject both situations and as you may have noticed both nations have been preserved. To suggest they have been "permitted" is confusing and simply not true.


Could you please point me to where Moderation/GRC "firmly rejected" those events in Dorvik and Beiteynu? Because that is not the response we got when those issues were raised at the time (see here and here).

Mr.God wrote:The RP that Chengher has been making is unrealistic and the RP he has made is non logical and does not in any way justify the change into a "gay" regime within such a small timespan.


Are you now saying that Moderation's objection is not just to the nation renaming, but to the whole "gay supremacism" line of RP Chengher has been following in Hulstria? If so, can I ask why this was not made clear earlier? A simple Moderation message on Hulstria's news thread, and possibly on Hulstria's message-board as well, would have sufficed. Do you appreciate that other players (myself included) have been participating in RP with Chengher, and that it would have been useful for us to be aware that his RP was not being allowed?

I personally feel this is an over-reaction. Terra has never adhered overly-strictly to the norms of the real world, and RPing unusual ideologies and political movements has always been part of what Particracy is about.

There had been an effort to introduce a RP law into Hulstria which would have banned parties which did not follow the "homosexual supremacist" ideology. I would say that at least for the moment, that would probably be going too far, and that more time should pass and RP take place before that was allowed (which is partly why I reported that RP law on the RP Law Query Thread). But to go so far as to to strike down all of Chengher's RP altogether is sad to see, and in my view, goes against the spirit of what Particracy is all about.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby ChengherRares1 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:34 pm

Aquinas wrote:
Mr.God wrote:
Respectfully, neither Chengher nor anyone else here has even remotely suggested that.


He certainly did, i would refer to his post before my response as it clearly showed "suspicion" of us being anti homosexual for some reason


Perhaps my use of the term "even remotely suggested that" was misplaced, but still, with respect, you are over-reacting. He did not actually accuse anybody of homophobia, he was questioning what was going on. To be fair, he was justified in asking for a proper explanation, given that Moderation had rather peculiarly declared the term "Gay" to be an "offensive variable" in a nation title. CM's statement was somewhat open to interpretation.

Mr.God wrote:The situations in Dorvik and Beiteynu have also been firmly rejected by moderation and the GRC, yes, this may have taken some time, but we did reject both situations and as you may have noticed both nations have been preserved. To suggest they have been "permitted" is confusing and simply not true.


Could you please point me to where Moderation/GRC "firmly rejected" those events in Dorvik and Beiteynu? Because that is not the response we got when those issues were raised at the time (see here and here).

Mr.God wrote:The RP that Chengher has been making is unrealistic and the RP he has made is non logical and does not in any way justify the change into a "gay" regime within such a small timespan.


Are you now saying that Moderation's objection is not just to the nation renaming, but to the whole "gay supremacism" line of RP Chengher has been following in Hulstria? If so, can I ask why this was not made clear earlier? A simple Moderation message on Hulstria's news thread, and possibly on Hulstria's message-board as well, would have sufficed. Do you appreciate that other players (myself included) have been participating in RP with Chengher, and that it would have been useful for us to be aware that his RP was not being allowed?

I personally feel this is an over-reaction. Terra has never adhered overly-strictly to the norms of the real world, and RPing unusual ideologies and political movements has always been part of what Particracy is about.

There had been an effort to introduce a RP law into Hulstria which would have banned parties which did not follow the "homosexual supremacist" ideology. I would say that at least for the moment, that would probably be going too far, and that more time should pass and RP take place before that was allowed (which is partly why I reported that RP law on the RP Law Query Thread). But to go so far as to to strike down all of Chengher's RP altogether is sad to see, and in my view, goes against the spirit of what Particracy is all about.


Thank you for supporting me and in general particracy. I do not think this should be like real world, despite a simulation of what real politics are, this game is far from reality, so it is only logical to adhere to new ideologies and to test new ideas that in real world could cause bad things. Also, how not enough time? I think that an dictatorial regime can do it without taking time. I think the idea to wait to implement ideas is bad. wHy? Because a dictatorship once achieved, there is no need of time to implement ideology, only speaking about organization, but not about ideology. When OOC Nazi came to power, nobody said to them wait to implement ideas or change country name. Only time that takes is organizing new names and reprinting the country name, but this game is not doing it, when changing name you just change it, disregarding the actual difficulty of reprinting documents, books , signs and more.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Yolo04 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:43 pm

If the idea behind the striking down of Chengher’s RP is that it is unrealistic, that kind of strikes down the entire idea behind Particracy, which is to have fun stimulating a nation. If we must be 100% realistic in Particracy, Keymon shouldn’t exist and even if it did exist, it wouldn’t have 20 million people nor would it even have land sustainable for agriculture. Yet that RP is allowed.

Particracy should be about having fun with RP, not constantly having to be realistic. If moderation wishes to enforce a 100% realistic standard, the game will be extremely boring and will be no fun for anyone.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby ChengherRares1 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:47 pm

Yolo04 wrote:If the idea behind the striking down of Chengher’s RP is that it is unrealistic, that kind of strikes down the entire idea behind Particracy, which is to have fun stimulating a nation. If we must be 100% realistic in Particracy, Keymon shouldn’t exist and even if it did exist, it wouldn’t have 20 million people nor would it even have land sustainable for agriculture. Yet that RP is allowed.

Particracy should be about having fun with RP, not constantly having to be realistic. If moderation wishes to enforce a 100% realistic standard, the game will be extremely boring and will be no fun for anyone.


And also not possible , cannot wait to need to go to a meeting as foreign affairs and simulate driving plane and crash and die. Realism 101% confirmed.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby ChengherRares1 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:27 pm

And if admins search for realism then you have real life, admins often forget this is a GAME, REAL Life is outside. Here is fun to come and test new ideas and ideologies, as real life would not be able. This game is already unrealistic, as trying to say my ideology is unrealistic is hypocrisy of its finest. The game itself is not realistic, so saying my ideology is not is pretty obvious a bad move. Also what is not realistic with my ideology? Is not normal or good structure. The ideology is based on gay liberation, own ficitional party manifesto similar to Mein Kampf an is based on sexual theories. So my ideology is fascism but with a weird variable of it. If you talk about realism, once you are a dictatorship you have access to all of the power and do what you want. Nobody will come and say wait for some reason or say that you are against cultural "protocols". If you are talking about numbers, gays as number are smaller, but few can make strong. A dictatorship is made of few individuals, plus there are real life examples (talking about reality) when minority dominated majority and opressed it. For example South Africa, the majority was black men (approx 85%) an white men where minority (the rest of 15%). So how did whiteys dominated the indigineous populace while technically being outnumbered like that? This is possible even in real life, because 1 dictatorship and 2 is not only about numbers and time.
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Wilderberg III » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:23 pm

Trigunia has been renamed: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=596000

New Name: Sotsialisticheskaya Respublika Triguniye Shtaty (The Socialist Republic of Trigunian States)
Democratic Left of the Republic [Valruzia]
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Re: Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests

Postby Aquinas » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:40 pm

Perhaps it would be possible to find some middle-ground and compromise between the two sides.

Would Moderation consider giving Chengher another chance to try to demonstrate that the regime he is RPing has the backing of important power structures in Hulstria, and has the support or at least acquiescence of a significant proportion of Hulstria's population?

Brain-storming off the top of my head here...

(a) Maybe the "gay supremacism" ideology could be re-framed as a kind of "male supremacism" or androcracy, based around the privileging of men over women, and with gay men forming the elite tier of an all-male ruling class. At least to some extent, this is actually what Chengher is doing already (see, for example this bill, which privileges both heterosexual and homosexual men over women). Such a regime might plausibly claim the support of a significant section of the male population. Through its ideology/indoctrination, it might also be able to persuade a proportion of the female population that this system is in the general interests of a stable and healthy society. Possibly this ideology rode to popularity partly on the back of a massive backlash against gender equality and feminism?

(b) Chengher could do more to try to show how the regime is dealing with its opponents and potential opponents. Probably through a mixture of coercion and co-option.

(c) Chengher could do some RP to demonstrate how the establishment and the security services, or at least a significant faction within those, has come to see the regime as being both in its interests and in the interests of Hulstria. Perhaps they believe this new ideology is the wave of the future and the only way to escape the instability/decline of the past? Maybe some important figures in the army are passionately committed to the regime's ideology?

(d) Chengher could do some more RP to demonstrate Hulstria is not a utopia where everybody is in love with the regime, but that in fact some sections of Hulstria are opposed - perhaps strongly opposed - to the ruling regime. To be fair, Chengher has already acknowledged this in some of his news posts, although (at least for my liking, anyway) more detail/background in this area would be helpful. Are there any particular social, ethnic, religious or ideological/political groups which are opposed to the regime? For that matter, are there groups which were unhappy with the previous regime, and see the new regime as a welcome change? This is the kind of thing I would encourage Chengher to have a think about and address in some of his news posts.

The points I have made are just suggestions, but the thrust of what I am getting at here is that what Chengher could try to do is (1) demonstrate there is a wider base of support for the regime and (2) do more to acknowledge in his RP that there is opposition to the regime within Hulstria. If he is willing to make an effort at that, I hope Moderation would give him another chance.
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