Cultural Protocol Violations

[LukasV]

Oh well. You're going to be changing stuff back anyways, by the looks of some of the bills that we just signed. It's a shame; just more work for you guys.

So wait, if you encourage everything to be in English anyways, what's the point of having cultural protocols anyways? People can eliminate all cultural ties just like that, Anglicize just about everything, and leave it all to rot, and Moderation doesn't have to do anything about that? Excuse my language and frustration, but what the hell? I mean, one can't force people to RP culturally by changing their party names and characters to fit the culture (I mean, one of the guys is RPing a bunch of Greeks), and there's no law that states that people have to RP with cultural relevancy; so my question comes down to: what is left of the cultural protocols when the parties won't RP the culture, and all of the names and such that are culturally relevant in the nation are wiped clean by others who don't agree with the culture in the first place?

What you're basically telling me here is that "yeah, you can have a culture, but an English one is better, so if it comes down to it, we prefer the English one regardless of all the work put into the cultural evolution". Your so-called cultural protocols then don't mean squat, and people can do whatever they see fit with a nation.

[Urien]

The official language of the game, as per the game rules, is English. So, everything would need an English translation, mainly for the name of the nation and the titles. However, since the regions were changed from the Polish back to the original, we also had to accept the change. We can't just override what Wouter already put in place should people want to go back to that.

If there are other cultural protocols violations, please, bring them up.

[Reiko]

Oh well. You're going to be changing stuff back anyways, by the looks of some of the bills that we just signed. It's a shame; just more work for you guys.

That's why we're here

So wait, if you encourage everything to be in English anyways, what's the point of having cultural protocols anyways? People can eliminate all cultural ties just like that, Anglicize just about everything, and leave it all to rot, and Moderation doesn't have to do anything about that? Excuse my language and frustration, but what the hell? I mean, one can't force people to RP culturally by changing their party names and characters to fit the culture (I mean, one of the guys is RPing a bunch of Greeks), and there's no law that states that people have to RP with cultural relevancy; so my question comes down to: what is left of the cultural protocols when the parties won't RP the culture, and all of the names and such that are culturally relevant in the nation are wiped clean by others who don't agree with the culture in the first place?

Not sure if you interpreted the ruling the right way. While the culture can be Polish, the nation name, titles, party names can stay in English, and we would encourage that, or at least to have a translation in brackets. English is the game's language, everyone should be able to understand everything when playing the game. That is why bills, resolutions etc. are in English, irrespective of the culture. If you want, on the Wiki page, in newspapers, etc., you can use the native name in the language.

The Culture has more to do with naming of candidates, cities, cultural and religious events and holidays, the wiki, the paper, etc.

What you're basically telling me here is that "yeah, you can have a culture, but an English one is better, so if it comes down to it, we prefer the English one regardless of all the work put into the cultural evolution". Your so-called cultural protocols then don't mean squat, and people can do whatever they see fit with a nation.

No, we're saying "the country may have a culture, but having titles, etc., in English would allow other players to be able to understand everything better." If you have a problem, just a simple bracket at the end can help with that. On the wiki, like wikipedia, you can have your native name on there and all the other titles in that language.

[LukasV]

That still pretty much makes having any sort of cultural influence on a nation out to be useless and futile, if English supersedes it. You're just allowing people to complete ignore culture altogether, to be replaced with anything more English-based. So if another bill comes up to switch the city names to something more "English-like", that's ok too?

It seems to me like you just invalidated just about everything in the cultural protocols, because the English language supersedes all else due to its universality.

I wouldn't be making a fuss if it was just a simple nation renaming or something, but the guy literally went in and took out everything that was Polish to replace it with English, without the slightest thought of compromise with the whole bracket thing, which we've just decided to do anyways. That's my problem; that you can effectively sanction someone to just tear down any cultural influences in-game, without so much as a "wait a sec here".

And, let's be honest here, the wiki isn't where the culture thrives. The wiki is an archive source of all that goes on in-game. It's not much of a place for RP, and cultural preservation really doesn't mean much on there, as no one really goes to the wiki just for that. Most of the RP happens in-game, and that's where the culture thrives. Whether it's nation names, region names, city names, or character names, that's where the influence of culture is supposed to be. If the whole foundation for that is gone, what's the use of a culture.

Here's a fun exercise. Go to Valruzia's page right now. Can you find anything on that page relevant to the Polish culture that it adopted by signing the "protocols"? (Minus the anthem; he had the good grace to leave that intact in its entirety). That's what I'm talking about when I say that the culture is destroyed.

[Urien]

As stated, English is the language of the game per the rules. The rules come before the cultural protocols.

[LukasV]

As stated, English is the language of the game per the rules. The rules come before the cultural protocols.

I'm not trying to argue against that. I'm trying to argue against your blatant disregard for culture in favor of the in-game default language. I mean, you didn't even bother with cultural protocols for preservation (I dunno, perhaps maybe hinting to the guy to bracket his stuff or something).

If you're going to set up a "program" like that, at least try and do something to keep it relevant. Right now, it's just a loophole exploitation. "Oh, English is the language of the game, so it invalidates anything non-English. You can sign onto this cultural protocols thing, but it won't matter, cuz we're not really going to upkeep the in-game nature of the culture if it's not an English derivative."

It's not so much as the English game-language stuff that bothers me; it's that with all of that, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT OF THE CULTURE IN THE NATION. THE NATION PAGE IS VOID OF ANY CULTURAL REFERENCE BY THIS ACTION. That's my problem.

I'm sorry, but that just seems like a big "Fuck you" to the community that worked hard on having some form of cultural identity within their nation.

[Reiko]

Their is no disregard to anything, per the cultural protocols Valruzia is based off of RL Poland. However, rules are rules, English is the primary language, and we can not tell someone that they can not use English.

We're not saying you aren't allowed to use Polish, we're saying we can't tell someone that they can't use English. In the event of using other languages, we highly encourage a bracketed English translation.

[LukasV]

Their is no disregard to anything, per the cultural protocols Valruzia is based off of RL Poland. However, rules are rules, English is the primary language, and we can not tell someone that they can not use English.

I'm not saying to tell them not to. I'm saying to intervene as per the protocols, to at least attempt to give credit to a culture that's been established. Reason with people. Instead, it seems like "Oh, this guy is eliminating any cultural references. But he's putting them in English, so it's ok."

What I expected you guys to do with regards to the protocols is "Well hey, we know you want the nation's culture to be in English because you're more comfortable with it, but the cultural protocols stipulate that a nation's culture can't be completely stripped for a long time. However, what you can do is request for an English translation alongside the existing terms, and we will 'ok' that instead." The best part is that THAT ACTION WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO EVERYONE.

I didn't expect you guys to sanction the complete removal of foreign language just like that, because you can. That is what pissed me off to no end.

[Reiko]

Let me put this another way: We can not invalidate the bills, because they are valid. The culture hasn't changed because of the bills.

Cultural Protection.
A nation that is at “Culturally Active” may not have it's culture significantly altered or supplanted by another cultural identity. Minor alterations are acceptable (eg en masse immigration, influences from a nation that has conquered the nation in question, gradual cultural progression). Moderation may intervene in order to ensure cultural integrity.

As such, the culture wasn't altered nor supplanted by another culture. As such, we can't do anything.

[LukasV]

Let me put this another way: We can not invalidate the bills, because they are valid. The culture hasn't changed because of the bills.

Cultural Protection.
A nation that is at “Culturally Active” may not have it's culture significantly altered or supplanted by another cultural identity. Minor alterations are acceptable (eg en masse immigration, influences from a nation that has conquered the nation in question, gradual cultural progression). Moderation may intervene in order to ensure cultural integrity.

As such, the culture wasn't altered nor supplanted by another culture. As such, we can't do anything.

Take a look at the nation as it is now, and find me any visible remains of its culture. Then maybe we'll talk.