Changing the Rules for War RP

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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby Farsun » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:47 pm

PaleRider wrote:I say get rid of most of the Rildanor Accords. They really are meaningless and more of a hassle than they are worth.


Alright, lets rid of them and allow everyone to have million man armies. I support this Pale.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby PaleRider » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:50 am

Farsun wrote:
PaleRider wrote:I say get rid of most of the Rildanor Accords. They really are meaningless and more of a hassle than they are worth.


Alright, lets rid of them and allow everyone to have million man armies. I support this Pale.

Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby Afrocentric » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:01 am

PaleRider wrote:
Farsun wrote:
PaleRider wrote:I say get rid of most of the Rildanor Accords. They really are meaningless and more of a hassle than they are worth.


Alright, lets rid of them and allow everyone to have million man armies. I support this Pale.

Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.


There is nothing wrong with the Accords.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby Corvo Attano » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:46 pm

PaleRider wrote:
Farsun wrote:
PaleRider wrote:I say get rid of most of the Rildanor Accords. They really are meaningless and more of a hassle than they are worth.


Alright, lets rid of them and allow everyone to have million man armies. I support this Pale.

Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.

Yeah so lets fuck all countries that were historically less active than the rest.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby Afrocentric » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:21 pm

I think there is more under the surface that is guiding your views on this Pale. The Accords are the one thing that makes warfare realistic in the game.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby Reddy » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:11 pm

PaleRider wrote:Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.


What exactly do you propose Pale, especially for the highlighted part? It will be an easier sell for you if you already have something concrete to offer.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby Siggon Kristov » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:28 pm

PaleRider wrote:Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.

Please, genius, tell us how this would work. For anything to work, it must be objective. It must be something that allows interpretation to be universal. I would love to know how "active RP" will be quantitatively measured. Farsun proposed an entire system and formulae. You just say vague crap (just like you did with wanting to raise money for the development of Particracy without having an idea of how much would be needed and how useful the amount would be).

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The main problem isn't the Rildanor Accords. The Rildanor Accords are just the go-to system for regulating militaries in conflict. I agree that it could be revised to be more realistic, not simply because PaleRider wants it revised. The main problem is usually that players don't agree on an outcome for RP beforehand, or they don't communicate effectively with all affected parties.

If you want to amend, change, or replace it, please propose something better. Right now, you're not making any solid proposal.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby PaleRider » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:38 am

Siggon Kristov wrote:
PaleRider wrote:Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.

Please, genius, tell us how this would work. For anything to work, it must be objective. It must be something that allows interpretation to be universal. I would love to know how "active RP" will be quantitatively measured. Farsun proposed an entire system and formulae. You just say vague crap (just like you did with wanting to raise money for the development of Particracy without having an idea of how much would be needed and how useful the amount would be).

That's just the problem right there. We don't need some over complicated, all encompassing system and formula for military RP. We've been trapped in the modern era in PT for some 3787 years....that right there is enough justification to suspend reality just a bit. I'm against any further regulation and formula and system because we are making needless burdens when none need to be made. I say vague crap because this is a vague game with broken economics, where all nations have almost equal populations and where if we follow the Accords, we almost all wind up with 680,000~ troops. We need to trust and help players more, not create a system which privileges the already well established. I've lost 4 wars because I did RP well enough and because other people RP'd their nations better and out maneuvered me. You can't institutionalize good RP. It has to be taught, people have to be helped. We are trying to make a science out of what is an art form.

The main problem isn't the Rildanor Accords. The Rildanor Accords are just the go-to system for regulating militaries in conflict. I agree that it could be revised to be more realistic, not simply because PaleRider wants it revised. The main problem is usually that players don't agree on an outcome for RP beforehand, or they don't communicate effectively with all affected parties.

If you want to amend, change, or replace it, please propose something better. Right now, you're not making any solid proposal.

I'm simply proposing let it be. Sure we get our goddmodders and sure we often have to help new players work on communication and quality RP, but we simply can't regulate it into existence. We need to work on communication, helping build quality RP, not on another new system which doesn't do anything but create more headaches. I'll be the first to admit that poor communication (partially on my part) is what doomed the most recent RP debacle but look at how it has improved RP. Because of that experience people learned, the new players learned and because I reached out and helped them at all possible turns, we were able to fix a lot. That's how we improve RP. Sometimes being vague is best.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby PaleRider » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:44 am

Reddy wrote:
PaleRider wrote:Military size should be determined by the size of the defense budget and active RP, not arbitrary numbers deduced from arbitrary formula.


What exactly do you propose Pale, especially for the highlighted part? It will be an easier sell for you if you already have something concrete to offer.

See my reply to Siggy but in essence I feel we don't need some specific formula system to govern RP. I feel that with work and good communication we can find a happy medium in PT. Won't always be perfect, but whoever heard of a modern society being technologically stunted for 3700+ years? A little suspension of reality wouldn't hurt.
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Re: Changing the Rules for War RP

Postby PaleRider » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:46 am

Afrocentric wrote:I think there is more under the surface that is guiding your views on this Pale. The Accords are the one thing that makes warfare realistic in the game.

There is none, except for my distaste of formal, all encompassing efforts like this. The Accords don't help further RP development, at least the part of the Accords regarding military size. I don't support those. Numbers should be left to the players to decide based off prior RP and the size of their defense budgets. If we see anything we feel is unrealistic, and assuming we are all mature adults here, we should simply bring up our concerns with the fellow player. Anything too unrealistic (like say if Rutania had a 10 million man army but only had a defense budget of 1 million) if not properly addressed, should then be sent to Moderation for decision.
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