Requests: RP Laws [RPC]

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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Govenor12 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:17 am

No not the FNB was banning any party but the Highest Court of Justice, estabilished in this bill (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=553251) which was made public according to the rules. Consequently I think that the decisions of this court are enforcable.

The court has ruled according to its rules that the party in question should be banned and announced its ruling http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=580141

Never was the party banned until now. No legislation was suspended and the banning of the party is based solely on the decision of the court. We had one precedent in Solentia where the moderation asked the party to rename itself and the seats of this party were resetted.


What will happen next:

As the party (SRC) put on close to ten bills on the voting stage which all aim to practically destroy the power of the military and police both institutions will stage a coup d'etat according to the First Soldier Act(http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=574923) which will then dissolve the SRC. As a pseudo-justification he will use the court ruling.

I think this is more than reasonable RP. The new party tries to force everything through with a sledghammer and tries to take away the power of the military. The response in countries like turkey has always been: coup d'etat.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7182&p=139242#p139242
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Govenor12 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:44 pm

I hereby ask the Moderation to act to enforce the rp law and the decision of the court as well as the result of the military coup and reset the party and its bills.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Polites » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:52 am

Apologies for the late reply, we needed to review the situation and see what we can do.

So we have some serious misgivings in regards to both the Highest Court bill and its decision to ban the Libertian Socialist Coferderation. To quote from Rule 6.e.iii., RP Laws "cannot ban types of parties (without considerable RP justification) or users." We believe that there has been no considerable RP justification for the ban on the Libertian Socialist Coferderation. And on a larger point, the Highest Court bill grants the RP institution the power to ban any political party it wishes (in its article 1.1). That part of the RP Law contradicts the game rules, which don't allow bans on specific parties, but on "types" of parties (e.g. banning republican parties in a monarchy, or "extremist" parties in a centrist liberal democracy). So that aspect of the RP Law is not enforceable by Moderation.

The precedent referenced by Governor in Solentia was of a different nature. What happened back then was that an RP law banned paramilitaries associated with political parties (so a broad, non-specific ban) and one party willfully RPd violating that act, leading to an RPd party ban. In that instance a seat reset was justified. What would be enforceable in this case is a more generic ban on certain kinds of political parties, in which case establishing an RP institution to determine whether any party complies with that general ban would be acceptable. But under the current circumstances we cannot enforce the Highest Court bill and the ban on the Libertian Socialist Coferderation as is stands.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Charli » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:25 pm

Polites wrote:Apologies for the late reply, we needed to review the situation and see what we can do.

So we have some serious misgivings in regards to both the Highest Court bill and its decision to ban the Libertian Socialist Coferderation. To quote from Rule 6.e.iii., RP Laws "cannot ban types of parties (without considerable RP justification) or users." We believe that there has been no considerable RP justification for the ban on the Libertian Socialist Coferderation. And on a larger point, the Highest Court bill grants the RP institution the power to ban any political party it wishes (in its article 1.1). That part of the RP Law contradicts the game rules, which don't allow bans on specific parties, but on "types" of parties (e.g. banning republican parties in a monarchy, or "extremist" parties in a centrist liberal democracy). So that aspect of the RP Law is not enforceable by Moderation.

The precedent referenced by Governor in Solentia was of a different nature. What happened back then was that an RP law banned paramilitaries associated with political parties (so a broad, non-specific ban) and one party willfully RPd violating that act, leading to an RPd party ban. In that instance a seat reset was justified. What would be enforceable in this case is a more generic ban on certain kinds of political parties, in which case establishing an RP institution to determine whether any party complies with that general ban would be acceptable. But under the current circumstances we cannot enforce the Highest Court bill and the ban on the Libertian Socialist Coferderation as is stands.
Thank you for affirming this. Does the fact that I have not consented to any of these RP attempts change anything?

Edit: They're not stopping.
Last edited by Charli on Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Govenor12 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:42 pm

Polites, I don't know what you have againts me, i never attacked you but i it seems to me that all the time i do everything wrong and everyone else does everything right. Every time, every single time you give the other side some benefit and i don't think that is fair. I invested a lot of time in these laws and every time you get involved somehow everything is wrong and you seem to find some way to destory everything which i built.

And i bet that my next request will also not be accepted for some reason i not yet know:

Then I hereby ask the party to be resetted (and the laws passed by the new party to be declared void, because the coup occoured straight aftee the elections) because a military coup occured and please don't tell me that this was not realistic when I passed a law which justified that (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=574923) and when the government is controlled by me and when a radical left-wing party comes into power and the first thing it does is to curtail the powers of the miliary.

Does this mean the whole High Court Act has to be repassed?


And to Charli:

You cannot go into a nation and suddenly pretend you are above RP. By trying to curtail the power of the military, even though you knew it was powerful, and trying to revoke many rp laws, you recognaized these rp laws. The counter actions are reasonable and realistic and you have to be prepared to face consequences of your actions. Even if they are just rp actions.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby lewiselder1 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:51 pm

Govenor12 wrote:Polites, I don't know what you have againts me, i never attacked you but i it seems to me that all the time i do everything wrong and everyone else does everything right. Every time, every single time you give the other side some benefit and i don't think that is fair. I invested a lot of time in these laws and every time you get involved somehow everything is wrong and you seem to find some way to destory everything which i built.

And i bet that my next request will also not be accepted for some reason i not yet know:

Then I hereby ask the party to be resetted (and the laws passed by the new party to be declared void, because the coup occoured straight aftee the elections) because a military coup occured and please don't tell me that this was not realistic when I passed a law which justified that (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=574923) and when the government is controlled by me and when a radical left-wing party comes into power and the first thing it does is to curtail the powers of the miliary.

Does this mean the whole High Court Act has to be repassed?


And to Charli:

You cannot go into a nation and suddenly pretend you are above RP. By trying to curtail the power of the military, even though you knew it was powerful, and trying to revoke many rp laws, you recognaized these rp laws. The counter actions are reasonable and realistic and you have to be prepared to face consequences of your actions. Even if they are just rp actions.


Regardless of whether there is any in-game basis for this action, OOC permission is needed as well, which you do not have. Continuing to attempt to RP a military coup without permission is unfair RP and will result in sanctioning, including but not limited to a temporary nation ban. We ask that you retcon the RP as it is considered invalid.

We would also encourage all players to ensure major RPs have consent granted OOC by the other player informally or via a bill, as is expected by the rules.
I go by Ashley now and use she/her pronouns. This is a really old account, I don’t play now.

I was a mod in classic for a bit, then I helped make Marcapada and WM there for a while. As of 2020 I’m co-ordinating Pachapay’s development.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Occam » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:02 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:
Govenor12 wrote:Polites, I don't know what you have againts me, i never attacked you but i it seems to me that all the time i do everything wrong and everyone else does everything right. Every time, every single time you give the other side some benefit and i don't think that is fair. I invested a lot of time in these laws and every time you get involved somehow everything is wrong and you seem to find some way to destory everything which i built.

And i bet that my next request will also not be accepted for some reason i not yet know:

Then I hereby ask the party to be resetted (and the laws passed by the new party to be declared void, because the coup occoured straight aftee the elections) because a military coup occured and please don't tell me that this was not realistic when I passed a law which justified that (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=574923) and when the government is controlled by me and when a radical left-wing party comes into power and the first thing it does is to curtail the powers of the miliary.

Does this mean the whole High Court Act has to be repassed?


And to Charli:

You cannot go into a nation and suddenly pretend you are above RP. By trying to curtail the power of the military, even though you knew it was powerful, and trying to revoke many rp laws, you recognaized these rp laws. The counter actions are reasonable and realistic and you have to be prepared to face consequences of your actions. Even if they are just rp actions.


Regardless of whether there is any in-game basis for this action, OOC permission is needed as well, which you do not have. Continuing to attempt to RP a military coup without permission is unfair RP and will result in sanctioning, including but not limited to a temporary nation ban. We ask that you retcon the RP as it is considered invalid.

We would also encourage all players to ensure major RPs have consent granted OOC by the other player informally or via a bill, as is expected by the rules.


Because he can't, let me say on behalf of House Spencer*:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




* I didn't talk to him, but I'm sure this would be his -- justified -- response.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby HBulow » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:02 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:
Govenor12 wrote:Polites, I don't know what you have againts me, i never attacked you but i it seems to me that all the time i do everything wrong and everyone else does everything right. Every time, every single time you give the other side some benefit and i don't think that is fair. I invested a lot of time in these laws and every time you get involved somehow everything is wrong and you seem to find some way to destory everything which i built.

And i bet that my next request will also not be accepted for some reason i not yet know:

Then I hereby ask the party to be resetted (and the laws passed by the new party to be declared void, because the coup occoured straight aftee the elections) because a military coup occured and please don't tell me that this was not realistic when I passed a law which justified that (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=574923) and when the government is controlled by me and when a radical left-wing party comes into power and the first thing it does is to curtail the powers of the miliary.

Does this mean the whole High Court Act has to be repassed?


And to Charli:

You cannot go into a nation and suddenly pretend you are above RP. By trying to curtail the power of the military, even though you knew it was powerful, and trying to revoke many rp laws, you recognaized these rp laws. The counter actions are reasonable and realistic and you have to be prepared to face consequences of your actions. Even if they are just rp actions.


Regardless of whether there is any in-game basis for this action, OOC permission is needed as well, which you do not have. Continuing to attempt to RP a military coup without permission is unfair RP and will result in sanctioning, including but not limited to a temporary nation ban. We ask that you retcon the RP as it is considered invalid.

We would also encourage all players to ensure major RPs have consent granted OOC by the other player informally or via a bill, as is expected by the rules.


Spencer was the only player in Jelbania but none of you cared he never consented to have 2/5ths of his country controlled by other nations and his Jelbanian parliament only allowed to set the laws for 1/5 Jelbania's regions.

If Charli's consent or non-consent to RP counts for something, then why didn't Spencer's? If Govenor12 couldn't bulldoze through Charli, why could cm9777 & his posse bulldoze through Spencer like they did?
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Charli » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:12 am

lewiselder1 wrote:
Govenor12 wrote:Polites, I don't know what you have againts me, i never attacked you but i it seems to me that all the time i do everything wrong and everyone else does everything right. Every time, every single time you give the other side some benefit and i don't think that is fair. I invested a lot of time in these laws and every time you get involved somehow everything is wrong and you seem to find some way to destory everything which i built.

And i bet that my next request will also not be accepted for some reason i not yet know:

Then I hereby ask the party to be resetted (and the laws passed by the new party to be declared void, because the coup occoured straight aftee the elections) because a military coup occured and please don't tell me that this was not realistic when I passed a law which justified that (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=574923) and when the government is controlled by me and when a radical left-wing party comes into power and the first thing it does is to curtail the powers of the miliary.

Does this mean the whole High Court Act has to be repassed?


And to Charli:

You cannot go into a nation and suddenly pretend you are above RP. By trying to curtail the power of the military, even though you knew it was powerful, and trying to revoke many rp laws, you recognaized these rp laws. The counter actions are reasonable and realistic and you have to be prepared to face consequences of your actions. Even if they are just rp actions.


Regardless of whether there is any in-game basis for this action, OOC permission is needed as well, which you do not have. Continuing to attempt to RP a military coup without permission is unfair RP and will result in sanctioning, including but not limited to a temporary nation ban. We ask that you retcon the RP as it is considered invalid.

We would also encourage all players to ensure major RPs have consent granted OOC by the other player informally or via a bill, as is expected by the rules.
Good to hear! Do I keep reporting any eventual further consent-less RP or do I just ignore it?
HBulow wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:Regardless of whether there is any in-game basis for this action, OOC permission is needed as well, which you do not have. Continuing to attempt to RP a military coup without permission is unfair RP and will result in sanctioning, including but not limited to a temporary nation ban. We ask that you retcon the RP as it is considered invalid.

We would also encourage all players to ensure major RPs have consent granted OOC by the other player informally or via a bill, as is expected by the rules.
If Charli's consent or non-consent to RP counts for something, then why didn't Spencer's? If Govenor12 couldn't bulldoze through Charli, why could cm9777 & his posse bulldoze through Spencer like they did?
Again, I don't appreciate you dragging me into your personal squabbles. I ask you again to leave me out of it.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby lewiselder1 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:08 am

Charli:

Just give us a heads up if there’s any further issues and we’ll have a look and decide how to proceed from there.
I go by Ashley now and use she/her pronouns. This is a really old account, I don’t play now.

I was a mod in classic for a bit, then I helped make Marcapada and WM there for a while. As of 2020 I’m co-ordinating Pachapay’s development.
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