RP Law Query Thread

In-Game and Forum requests and complaints.

Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Occam » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:05 am

lewiselder1 wrote:while Moderation is usually bound by the rules, Moderation can step outside of them if justifiably necessary. They’re not the law and if we see Moderation as an extension or delegation of Wouter, if it’s necessary to ensure the game runs right and it’s an exceptional or important matter, Moderation has every right to act outside of them. In other words, Mods are expected to stick within them, but are not exclusively bound by them.

In that case calling them "rules" is, at best, misleading. So let's rename them to "guidelines" or "rules of thumb".
lewiselder1 wrote:Moderation should never be dictators, but are also never 100% bound by the rules 100% of the time

Moderators are dictators insofar as they can dictate the rules as they see fit. If they deliberately break those rules they become something far worse.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby lewiselder1 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:31 am

Occam wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:while Moderation is usually bound by the rules, Moderation can step outside of them if justifiably necessary. They’re not the law and if we see Moderation as an extension or delegation of Wouter, if it’s necessary to ensure the game runs right and it’s an exceptional or important matter, Moderation has every right to act outside of them. In other words, Mods are expected to stick within them, but are not exclusively bound by them.

In that case calling them "rules" is, at best, misleading. So let's rename them to "guidelines" or "rules of thumb".
lewiselder1 wrote:Moderation should never be dictators, but are also never 100% bound by the rules 100% of the time

Moderators are dictators insofar as they can dictate the rules as they see fit. If they deliberately break those rules they become something far worse.


1. I don’t think it’s misleading to call them rules at all, this is a very small minority of cases where we would do it and only when it’s absolutely necessary and in the interest of the game as a whole. We’d never do this is the community at large thought it was unfair, because then we’d be failing in the goal of making exception to the rules; to ensure the game is fair and runs smoothly. By exceptional circumstances, if it’s something very minor like invalidating a formerly valid RP law that was going to be overturned anyway after a long debate to avoid confusion in the future, that justifies it. Something like inactivating an obviously inactive party even if they’ve not totally aligned with the rules, as you may have seen discussed in the Inactivation Requests thread, wouldn’t be enough. It’s hardly as if the rules are useless — but they’re not infallible, they’re not written by lawyers, and I think if it’s absolutely necessary Moderation can step outside of them in RARE circumstances

2. Moderators are bound by the rules almost all of the time and can only change them with consultations or step outside of them with serious justification. At the end of the day unless people are largely unhappy with Moderation I think we’re doing something right.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:59 am

So I query these:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576275

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=575238
(doesnt say RP Law)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576909
(doesnt say RP law, says 2/3rds supermajority to repeal)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=578983
(not refrenced in billsunderdebate, doesnt say RP law, 2nd paragraph busts games mechanics)
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Polites » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:46 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:
Occam wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:while Moderation is usually bound by the rules, Moderation can step outside of them if justifiably necessary. They’re not the law and if we see Moderation as an extension or delegation of Wouter, if it’s necessary to ensure the game runs right and it’s an exceptional or important matter, Moderation has every right to act outside of them. In other words, Mods are expected to stick within them, but are not exclusively bound by them.

In that case calling them "rules" is, at best, misleading. So let's rename them to "guidelines" or "rules of thumb".
lewiselder1 wrote:Moderation should never be dictators, but are also never 100% bound by the rules 100% of the time

Moderators are dictators insofar as they can dictate the rules as they see fit. If they deliberately break those rules they become something far worse.


1. I don’t think it’s misleading to call them rules at all, this is a very small minority of cases where we would do it and only when it’s absolutely necessary and in the interest of the game as a whole. We’d never do this is the community at large thought it was unfair, because then we’d be failing in the goal of making exception to the rules; to ensure the game is fair and runs smoothly. By exceptional circumstances, if it’s something very minor like invalidating a formerly valid RP law that was going to be overturned anyway after a long debate to avoid confusion in the future, that justifies it. Something like inactivating an obviously inactive party even if they’ve not totally aligned with the rules, as you may have seen discussed in the Inactivation Requests thread, wouldn’t be enough. It’s hardly as if the rules are useless — but they’re not infallible, they’re not written by lawyers, and I think if it’s absolutely necessary Moderation can step outside of them in RARE circumstances

2. Moderators are bound by the rules almost all of the time and can only change them with consultations or step outside of them with serious justification. At the end of the day unless people are largely unhappy with Moderation I think we’re doing something right.


At the end of the day this is not a democracy, because this is not a political community. Our role is to manage the day-to-day running of the game on behalf of its creator and owner, through whatever means necessary for that task. The best means to achieve that is obviously to have clear, predictable, and transparent rules to which everyone, including Moderation, is bound. But the game rules are not a constitution, and occasionally we need to go against their letter in specific circumstances.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Occam » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:37 pm

House Spencer wrote:So I query these:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576275

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=575238
(doesnt say RP Law)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576909
(doesnt say RP law, says 2/3rds supermajority to repeal)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=578983
(not refrenced in billsunderdebate, doesnt say RP law, 2nd paragraph busts games mechanics)

I second the query. All clearly invalid according to the rules (whatever that's worth).
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Reddy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:49 pm

House Spencer wrote:So I query these:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576275

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=575238
(doesnt say RP Law)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576909
(doesnt say RP law, says 2/3rds supermajority to repeal)



No need for this query. Those three are mine (made before realising the rules have changed) and I've removed the reference bill. I don't care if they are valid or not.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:06 pm

Reddy wrote:
House Spencer wrote:So I query these:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576275

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=575238
(doesnt say RP Law)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576909
(doesnt say RP law, says 2/3rds supermajority to repeal)



No need for this query. Those three are mine (made before realising the rules have changed) and I've removed the reference bill. I don't care if they are valid or not.


Hold on Im trying to understand this but it looks screwy.

Assuming those RP laws are valid according to Moderation.......

Can Reddy unilateraly strike them out just by deleting the reference bill???? Reddy aint even playing in Deltaria right now. What about the opinons of players who are there????
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Occam » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:20 pm

Reddy wrote:I've removed the reference bill. I don't care if they are valid or not.

:?: :shock: :?:
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby Reddy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:23 pm

House Spencer wrote:
Reddy wrote:
House Spencer wrote:So I query these:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576275

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=575238
(doesnt say RP Law)

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576909
(doesnt say RP law, says 2/3rds supermajority to repeal)



No need for this query. Those three are mine (made before realising the rules have changed) and I've removed the reference bill. I don't care if they are valid or not.


Hold on Im trying to understand this but it looks screwy.

Assuming those RP laws are valid according to Moderation.......

Can Reddy unilateraly strike them out just by deleting the reference bill???? Reddy aint even playing in Deltaria right now. What about the opinons of players who are there????


It's my bill, I can do whatever I like with it, active or inactive. You can still dig for each of the laws if it's absolutely important for you to have them struck down. You raise the interesting question of the Deltarian players. Are you one? Because customarily, RP law queries are done by people affected by the law. If you are not, it's really just a meddling crusade. Regardless this part of it is over.
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Re: RP Law Query Thread

Postby House Spencer » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:36 pm

Reddy wrote:It's my bill, I can do whatever I like with it, active or inactive. You can still dig for each of the laws if it's absolutely important for you to have them struck down. You raise the interesting question of the Deltarian players. Are you one? Because customarily, RP law queries are done by people affected by the law. If you are not, it's really just a meddling crusade. Regardless this part of it is over.


Anybody anywhere anytime can query any RP law there is no law against that is there? I am intrested in RP laws because of what was done to me in Jelbania.

Question 1: Are players meant to delete RPLaw ref bills when the RP Laws therein are still or could still be valid?

Question 2: Can a RP Law be struck down just by the player who made the RPLaw ref bill deleting it?
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