Requests: General [A]

Submit your requests on various areas of the game.

Moderator: RP Committee

Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Fred » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:17 pm

On an unrelated note, I don't know where to put this: http://classic.particracy.net/viewparty ... tyid=20281

Te party has no user id, and shows up on the nation overview with no name.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby MichaelReilly » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:30 pm

Sorry Fred to skip ahead of you. Mods; answer his request first.

Anyhoo: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=391866
Down with this sort of thing
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby kawn! » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:55 am

The RP is not "official" in any capacity whether it be on the forums or on the Wiki until approved by the moderation. I and my comrades have not done anything RP wise in Darnussia, because nothing has been officially voted on. The bills announcing my occupation are being voted on right now, but they're not considered "done" until the vote has ended. Luthori does reserve the right to "propaganda" which may or may not be true of real world events. I reserve the right to make propaganda claims from my party, which may or may not be true of real events. The issue is what is factually real, and what is not.

Honestly, I have been really disappointed with Darnussian players, but whatever. Is there a rich RP history in Darnussia? The Wiki hasn't been updated since the 3300s, and the debate bills currently in play in the 3500s don't add to much. Maybe I am missing something. I have some questions for the mods.

Under Rildanor it requires 50% plus one of the legislature, the HOS, the HOG, the defense and foreign minister to go to war, but now it seems it needs 100% of the legislature, and even parties with 0 seats.

Treaties require 2/3rds to pass, but it takes 100% of all parties to agree to enforce them.

Constitutional Changes and Name Changes require 2/3rds, but what does it mean when maybe 20% of the legislature opposes it?

Seeing as how I am a Darnussian party can I say no to RP forever and ever?

I'll follow whatever rules you got going here, but it just seems to me that if I need the consent of every party its going to send the game to a halt. If I have 10 parties in my nation, 9 out of 10 agree, but one party with 1% says no then it stops everything. If that is how the game is played, so be it, but it seems like a waste.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Siggon Kristov » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:13 am

kawn! wrote:Under Rildanor it requires 50% plus one of the legislature, the HOS, the HOG, the defense and foreign minister to go to war, but now it seems it needs 100% of the legislature, and even parties with 0 seats.

This annoys me as well, which is why I set up the technocratic committees in Lodamun. Hopefully Moderation will recognise their in-character authority and allow the Military High Command to stage a coup whenever it feels, or decide to go to war.
The Rildanor Accord says this:
The proportion of seats voting against the war (not abstaining) halved is an effectiveness penalty due to soldiers knowing of war weariness and some lack of support back home.

And I always wondered why that couldn't be enforced instead of waiting for everyone's OOC approval (including those who oppose ICly).

Even the coup thing mentioned in the Rildanor Accord is something I've never seen enforced.
An army that meets these conditions but without the HoS's support, if the HoS is democratically elected, can be used for a coup d'etat alone, to fight the militias of the parties opposing the motion. No reservists can be called.

I was told (by Moderation, and I have the message in my inbox as evidence) that all coups are RP so they have to have support of all players. I understand that they affect the players' characters in some cases, but can't it be said that those players are going god-mode by pretending that their characters are invincible?

kawn! wrote:Treaties require 2/3rds to pass, but it takes 100% of all parties to agree to enforce them.

Yup. The treaties for RP (i.e. the ones without articles that limit legislation through game mechanics) are only enforced when all players support. I remember this issue coming up in Beluzia. Why can't it just be "comply when the treaty is ratified, and if you get a majority, you can simply withdraw from it" ?

kawn! wrote:Constitutional Changes and Name Changes require 2/3rds, but what does it mean when maybe 20% of the legislature opposes it?

Don't worry. Mods have changed nation names with less than 100% support.

kawn! wrote:Seeing as how I am a Darnussian party can I say no to RP forever and ever?

Yup.

kawn! wrote:I'll follow whatever rules you got going here, but it just seems to me that if I need the consent of every party its going to send the game to a halt. If I have 10 parties in my nation, 9 out of 10 agree, but one party with 1% says no then it stops everything. If that is how the game is played, so be it, but it seems like a waste.

This is why it would be hard for an active nation like Dranland to become active internationally.

--

There are a clique of players, and one has even admitted that his attachment to sand castes in Particracy is irrational (and another has expressed something similarly ridiculous, and I have the messages to prove it if Moderation requests the links), who just take the game way too seriously and have the idea that they own some of the countries in it. They made up a few stories some years ago, and a few things have changed so they go crazy. They want the game to stay the same way, permanently. It leaves little room for new RP, because they want to maintain the status quo.
Check out my latest Particracy project, and feel free to discuss it in the forums.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby kawn! » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:15 am

If I change Darnussia's legislature to Luthori's Parliament, the flag to Luthori, the name to Luthori Protectorate of Darnussia, and the HOS and HOG to Luthori's Chancellor and Prime Minister: If I do all these things through the game mechanics how can my RP be refused? It's in the game itself.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Siggon Kristov » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:55 am

kawn! wrote:If I change Darnussia's legislature to Luthori's Parliament,

That wouldn't be wise, since the game elects them separately. It wouldn't make sense when the compositions are different.
What you could do is name it something that implies that it's a colonial legislature that is below Luthori's legislature as its upper house.

kawn! wrote:the flag to Luthori

I think Alduria and Rildanor used to have the same flag as a part of the "Empire du Canrille" or something like that.
I doubt it's illegal, but what I'd suggest doing is making a flag with Luthori's flag in the top left corner (like you see the Union Jack in the flags of Australia, New Zealand, Bermuda, Cayman, etc.) You could do a blank dark blue flag (dark blue for the colour of Narikaton/Darnussia on the map), put Luthori's flag in the top left, and then put 5 stars in the flag (position them to match the positions of Narikaton and Darnussia's provinces).

kawn! wrote:the name to Luthori Protectorate of Darnussia,

This has been done in other nations before; I don't think it's against the rules.

kawn! wrote:and the HOS and HOG to Luthori's Chancellor and Prime Minister

That wouldn't be wise (for the same reason it wouldn't be wise to change the legislature to Luthori's). Change the HoS to Luthori's HoS, but have the HoG as someone elected by Darnussia's legislature (maybe give the person the title of "Premier" like the HoG of Cayman uses, or like Jamaica used when we were a colony of the UK).

kawn! wrote:If I do all these things through the game mechanics how can my RP be refused? It's in the game itself.

For a lot of this, I don't see why players should need to make it super difficult for you by talking about mutual consent and RP (in your specific case, but I do see where the "mutual consent for RP" rule is important sometimes). If they don't like what you're doing, they should claim in-charater opposition to Luthori's colonisation.
Check out my latest Particracy project, and feel free to discuss it in the forums.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby kawn! » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:42 am

My main point is how can they deny that Luthori has conquered them RP wise if every constitutional aspect via game mechanics is Luthori colonial Parliament, colonial flag, colonial HOS etc. It makes no sense. The players in Darnussia want to simply deny every RP proposal I have as if it never happened, Republican parties refused to cooperate with me to topple the Monarchy when it was their goal for decades, and then I royally kicked their ass in the latest election with 54% out of four parties. Still, they want to just obstruct everything, present no alternative, and come rushing to the mods instead of coming up with a consensus solution. The honorable thing would be to acknowledge you got beat, and work with the majority party to come up with a good story. It's all about good stories, not about who looks bad or good. They say its unreasonable Luthori could conquer Darnussia so easily. Well, Luthori is the super power of Particracy. It is indeed that easy, it was easy, it will continue to be easy. It has just been really disappointing in Darnussia.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Siggon Kristov » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:47 am

kawn! wrote:The honorable thing would be to acknowledge you got beat, and work with the majority party to come up with a good story.

Agreed.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Khaler » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:53 am

It should be noted that the player is yet again stepping over his boundries by defining RP things for other nations (this time, Luthori).

"As a matter of clarification, the treaty between Luthori and Darnussia is only valid with the former Holy Luthori Empire. It was never valid with the Realms of Luthori. "

It should be noted that both Darnussia and Luthori have been signers of that treaty, and they still are for now. I doubt a player in another nation (Darnussia) has the right to make such proclamations on behalf of another country (Luthori). Withdraw first.

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=391914

We can not work with a "majority party" who blatantly goes around not respecting the rules of the game. You are not in Luthori, you can't speak for Luthori. You simply don't know how to play this game. You should stop overstepping your boundaries and then we can start talking.

It's all about good stories, not about who looks bad or good. They say its unreasonable Luthori could conquer Darnussia so easily. Well, Luthori is the super power of Particracy. It is indeed that easy, it was easy, it will continue to be easy. It has just been really disappointing in Darnussia.


But it is nonsense, story wise. Luthori and Darnussia have been the closest of allies for way over 500 years. Your little story just doesn't fit the larger picture. Now if your buddies would have played some kind of nazi-takeover in Luthori with all kinds of brainwashing stuff, it could be realistic, but having two friendly nations and people to go to war just like that is not realistic. The populations wouldn't buy it.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Siggon Kristov » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:20 am

Khaler wrote:But it is nonsense, story wise. Luthori and Darnussia have been the closest of allies for way over 500 years. Your little story just doesn't fit the larger picture. Now if your buddies would have played some kind of nazi-takeover in Luthori with all kinds of brainwashing stuff, it could be realistic, but having two friendly nations and people to go to war just like that is not realistic. The populations wouldn't buy it.

Good point. I was also confused by the whole fact that he's representing a colonial government, yet declaring war on the empire that he's colonising Darnussia on behalf of.
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