Requests: General [A]

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Re: Moderation/GRC Queries

Postby Aquinas » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:04 am

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6369&start=680#p139686

Luis1p wrote:http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=580724

Reintroduced CPs for ya. :mrgreen:


Just checking whether Lourenne's CP update request ended up getting overlooked...
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Re: Moderation/GRC Queries

Postby cm9777 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:42 am

Aquinas wrote:http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6369&start=680#p139686

Luis1p wrote:http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=580724

Reintroduced CPs for ya. :mrgreen:


Just checking whether Lourenne's CP update request ended up getting overlooked...



viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6369&start=690

Seems Lewis has approved it now.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby cm9777 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 am



If I understand correctly, the party in question probably voted on those bills before they were inactivated but obviously those bills stayed in voting meaning the vote of that inactive party is still recorded. I don't think this can occur any other way (let me know if this isn't the case). In this case there is unfortunately very little that can be done on it. If its some sort of renaming bill we can certainly rule it invalid but for standard proposals there is no way to undo it apart from passing another bill.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Aquinas » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:19 pm

cm9777 wrote:


If I understand correctly, the party in question probably voted on those bills before they were inactivated but obviously those bills stayed in voting meaning the vote of that inactive party is still recorded. I don't think this can occur any other way (let me know if this isn't the case). In this case there is unfortunately very little that can be done on it. If its some sort of renaming bill we can certainly rule it invalid but for standard proposals there is no way to undo it apart from passing another bill.


Please could you explain the bolded/underlined part? Is the implication here that renaming bills may be considered invalid if one of the parties inactivates shortly after voting for it?
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby cm9777 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:32 pm

Aquinas wrote:
cm9777 wrote:


If I understand correctly, the party in question probably voted on those bills before they were inactivated but obviously those bills stayed in voting meaning the vote of that inactive party is still recorded. I don't think this can occur any other way (let me know if this isn't the case). In this case there is unfortunately very little that can be done on it. If its some sort of renaming bill we can certainly rule it invalid but for standard proposals there is no way to undo it apart from passing another bill.


Please could you explain the bolded/underlined part? Is the implication here that renaming bills may be considered invalid if one of the parties inactivates shortly after voting for it?


Yes that is correct.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Aquinas » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:11 pm

cm9777 wrote:Yes that is correct.


This approach to renaming requests is not explained at all in the Game Rules, and this is taking a different approach to how things have been done previously. Going forward, if this is continued, I think we will find this will confuse and irritate players, because obviously it is counter-intuitive to assume that just because a party disbands, that somehow means the votes it cast just before it was disbanded don't count. To offer a UK parallel, this is like saying that because an MP has resigned his seat in the House of Commons, his most recent House of Commons votes should be "voided" - even if that means retrospectively changing the outcome on the bills he voted on.

Could you clarify in more detail what approach Moderation is following on this? For example, when Moderation receives a renaming request, does Moderation routinely investigate to check whether the outcome of the vote would have been changed if you deduct the votes of parties which have now disbanded? Or is Moderation only doing this when players bring this issue to attention?

On a somewhat related matter, could you also clarify whether Moderation is still following its previous precedent of deleting bills which are currently in the voting stage if the party which created them inactivates shortly afterwards? Again, this is an approach which is counter-intuitive, makes little sense and is likely to create issues going forward.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby cm9777 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:27 pm

Aquinas wrote:
cm9777 wrote:Yes that is correct.


This approach to renaming requests is not explained at all in the Game Rules, and this is taking a different approach to how things have been done previously. Going forward, if this is continued, I think we will find this will confuse and irritate players, because obviously it is counter-intuitive to assume that just because a party disbands, that somehow means the votes it cast just before it was disbanded don't count. To offer a UK parallel, this is like saying that because an MP has resigned his seat in the House of Commons, his most recent House of Commons votes should be "voided" - even if that means retrospectively changing the outcome on the bills he voted on.

Could you clarify in more detail what approach Moderation is following on this? For example, when Moderation receives a renaming request, does Moderation routinely investigate to check whether the outcome of the vote would have been changed if you deduct the votes of parties which have now disbanded? Or is Moderation only doing this when players bring this issue to attention?

On a somewhat related matter, could you also clarify whether Moderation is still following its previous precedent of deleting bills which are currently in the voting stage if the party which created them inactivates shortly afterwards? Again, this is an approach which is counter-intuitive, makes little sense and is likely to create issues going forward.


Such a judgement is made at Moderation’s discretion especially since things like nation renamings need Moderators to actually go into the game and do them. Depending on circumstances and due to its rarity, not a routine check (only when a player raises the issue). There is indeed an old precedent where a Nationmaster appointment was denied along this issue (that’s the closest I could find to an example of this happening).

And yes, that precedent is still being followed. I’ve heard both sides on this so we’ll leave it to consideration in the rule changes.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby SavelyYuriev » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:32 pm

A few questions:
1. Is it legal for a party to "out-law" other parties?

2. What happens when a party breaks the constitution and they're the leading party?

3. Is it legal for a party to turn a nation into a dictatorship?

The particular bill/nation in question:
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=583830
http://classic.particracy.net/viewnation.php?nationid=42
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby cm9777 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:57 pm

SavelyYuriev wrote:A few questions:
1. Is it legal for a party to "out-law" other parties?

2. What happens when a party breaks the constitution and they're the leading party?

3. Is it legal for a party to turn a nation into a dictatorship?

The particular bill/nation in question:
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=583830
http://classic.particracy.net/viewnation.php?nationid=42


1: Yes but not without significant rp justification (or if you have the consent of the player of that party, I have seen such thing in Malivia once). Additionally, that vote doesn’t have a 2/3 majority so it won’t be accepted

2: Constitutions are very much underdeveloped in the game so I do not think this is really a factor unless there is a constitution in the form of a properly passed rp law which all players will be required to follow until it is overturned.

3: Yes, a one party state can be set in a properly passed rp law by having all players play as factions of that ruling party. You cannot however force anyone to vote a particular way.

If you have any more questions let me know
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