Requests: General [A]

Submit your requests on various areas of the game.

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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Farsun » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:58 pm

I'd like to petition to have the Trigunian culture reviewed because apparently Finnish became a large portion of Trigunian culture without any substantial backing or historical background. Could this be investigated as a breach in the cultural protocols seeing as this has been a problem I've viewed in Trigunia for a longtime.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Valdštejn » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:34 am

Siggon Kristov wrote:
Valdštejn wrote:The nation's name doesn't have to be in the countries language, English is always acceptable.

"Demetreilourenea" seems neither English nor French, specifically the second part - "lourenea" which is a non-French modification of the nation's default name. I'm assuming the name can be English or the country's language, but not something completely outside of that.

Valdštejn wrote:The in-game political opinions doesn't matter the slightest, the only thing it does influence is how many votes a party will get on election day.

I think this ought to be changed, in regards to cultural protocols formation and regulation, just to keep things realistic.

Just imagine a theocratic party being the only party in a nation for a few years, and they create a religious culture when the nation is irreligious, then they bitch about it when another party comes and sweeps the elections with secular policies in its visibility, and tries to actually change "too many laws at once" against the cultural protocols.

It could be the other way around, where a militant atheist party forces secular policies on a religious country, makes up cultural protocols to claim that the people aren't generally interested in religion, then complain when a religious party sweeps the elections and tries to reverse all the "culture" in the nation that was player-developed.

--

I'm not saying that culture should be based on the political opinions, but the political opinions should at least be considered when creating a culture, just to keep things realistic.

Rildanor's political opinions on religion ... http://classic.particracy.net/viewopini ... nid=27#REL
Rildanor's "culture" ... http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=356848


As long as the country's name isn't blatantly from another, recognisable culture, it won't be forbidden.

And the polticial opinions don't matter now, and won't matter in the future. Cultural protocols can't claim any interest in religion, they can claim only things not regulated by the game mechanic's, like ethnical composition or the prevailing languages.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Valdštejn » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:44 am

Farsun wrote:I'd like to petition to have the Trigunian culture reviewed because apparently Finnish became a large portion of Trigunian culture without any substantial backing or historical background. Could this be investigated as a breach in the cultural protocols seeing as this has been a problem I've viewed in Trigunia for a longtime.



According to the Trigunian cultural protocols, 35% of Trigunians are Sullestians (Finnish). 35% taking over the cultural dominance wouldn't be so dramatic as to need special RP, especially when the only larger group has only 43%. Also, Finnish is explicitly named as official language, which makes it relatively unproblematic to establish Finnish names.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Farsun » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:54 am

Valdštejn wrote:
Farsun wrote:I'd like to petition to have the Trigunian culture reviewed because apparently Finnish became a large portion of Trigunian culture without any substantial backing or historical background. Could this be investigated as a breach in the cultural protocols seeing as this has been a problem I've viewed in Trigunia for a longtime.


According to the Trigunian cultural protocols, 35% of Trigunians are Sullestians (Finnish). 35% taking over the cultural dominance wouldn't be so dramatic as to need special RP, especially when the only larger group has only 43%. Also, Finnish is explicitly named as official language, which makes it relatively unproblematic to establish Finnish names.


This I understand but Trigunia is a "Culturally active" nation with the Trigunian culture and language, the introduction of the Finnish, or Sullestians would have to gradually happen over the course of 500 years which is written in the very rules which the Moderation team designed for cultural protocols. From a 0% population to 35%? I believe that to be a radical culture shift and I disagree entirely with it personally. I believe a culture group shouldn't form absolutely out of no where.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Valdštejn » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:22 am

Farsun wrote:
Valdštejn wrote:
Farsun wrote:I'd like to petition to have the Trigunian culture reviewed because apparently Finnish became a large portion of Trigunian culture without any substantial backing or historical background. Could this be investigated as a breach in the cultural protocols seeing as this has been a problem I've viewed in Trigunia for a longtime.


According to the Trigunian cultural protocols, 35% of Trigunians are Sullestians (Finnish). 35% taking over the cultural dominance wouldn't be so dramatic as to need special RP, especially when the only larger group has only 43%. Also, Finnish is explicitly named as official language, which makes it relatively unproblematic to establish Finnish names.


This I understand but Trigunia is a "Culturally active" nation with the Trigunian culture and language, the introduction of the Finnish, or Sullestians would have to gradually happen over the course of 500 years which is written in the very rules which the Moderation team designed for cultural protocols. From a 0% population to 35%? I believe that to be a radical culture shift and I disagree entirely with it personally. I believe a culture group shouldn't form absolutely out of no where.



I see, sorry, I didn't think you were contesting their cultural protocols at first.
At least in our records (that is, the cultural protocols thread) there are no previous cultural protocols, so we need evidence that there either were references specially to Trigunian culture no longer than 500 years ago, or that there were references no longer than 100 years ago (and no reasonable RP in order to introduce the Finnish culture). If you have any links, please post them.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Siggon Kristov » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:34 am

Valdštejn wrote:Cultural protocols can't claim any interest in religion.

They can't? Really?
Please, I don't expect lies from the Moderation team.
Don't lie to us while expecting us to trust your judgement.

Urien wrote:Example:

Bill Title: “OOC: National Cultural Identity”.

“Upon passing, the nation of Crapistan shall adopt a culture loosely based upon German Culture.”
Influences: Some slavic influences due to past Deltarian conquests.
Character naming: Favour German names with some limited eastern european names for characters.
National dictionary: http://www.yourdictionaryurl.com
Cultural origins: Our country has origins in emigrants from Jelbania and Keymon.
Religious influences: About 50% Terran Catholic, with strong indigenous religions based on pagan influences, the largest of which is called “Hammer of Bodin” covering about 35% of the population.


Here are the bills that were approved for culturally protected nations. All mention religion.
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329525
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329723
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329529
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329720

I could add more, but I only included the ones on the list of protected nations, written by Urien.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Valdštejn » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:39 am

Siggon Kristov wrote:
Valdštejn wrote:Cultural protocols can't claim any interest in religion.

They can't? Really?
Please, I don't expect lies from the Moderation team.
Don't lie to us while expecting us to trust your judgement.


Not everyone stating something you think is wrong is lying.

Urien wrote:Example:

Bill Title: “OOC: National Cultural Identity”.

“Upon passing, the nation of Crapistan shall adopt a culture loosely based upon German Culture.”
Influences: Some slavic influences due to past Deltarian conquests.
Character naming: Favour German names with some limited eastern european names for characters.
National dictionary: http://www.yourdictionaryurl.com
Cultural origins: Our country has origins in emigrants from Jelbania and Keymon.
Religious influences: About 50% Terran Catholic, with strong indigenous religions based on pagan influences, the largest of which is called “Hammer of Bodin” covering about 35% of the population.


Here are the bills that were approved for culturally protected nations. All mention religion.
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329525
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329723
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329529
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=329720

I could add more, but I only included the ones on the list of protected nations, written by Urien.


Thanks for that, but it should have been pretty obvious that this says little to nothing about the interest in religion. All it says is which religions are there, and how many are part of them. It says nothing about how the people feel about religion in politics, nothing about who the people will vote for.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Farsun » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:42 am

From: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=308850 & http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=360847

To: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=356886 & http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=364494

Those two bills which passed with the required 2/3 majority both party wise and I believe seat wise are considered to be cultural protocols especially the first. I believe other nations such as Kanjor, Rilandor and Lourenne have had similar situations because they were commonly known as the "French" nations. Clearly the huge jump to include the Finnish population was done without any historical or cultural significant and for disregard to the established culture because the entirety of the nations titles and names become Finnish.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Siggon Kristov » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:23 am

Valdštejn wrote:Thanks for that, but it should have been pretty obvious that this says little to nothing about the interest in religion. All it says is which religions are there, and how many are part of them. It says nothing about how the people feel about religion in politics, nothing about who the people will vote for.

Really?
Religious influences: Primarily a diverse, and peaceful, three-way mix of Pagan (mostly Celtic Pagan), Christian (mostly Catholic), and Secular. A few small minorities exist too.

To me, that sounds like the citizens would be opposed to a single religion being mandatory (an optional variable of the state's policy on a national religion).
All the others seem as if the citizens wouldn't want religion to be banned (another optional variable of the state's policy on a national religion).

And please see the comments on this bill... http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=337956
I could agree to Article 2 and other moderate articles in the future, but I will have to vote "no" against this bill as it violates Indralan tradition.
Indrala has numerous state religions which are more cultural symbols. Also, 90% of all Indralans are adherents of any one of those religions: Heaven Worship, Qamido, and Dharmism.

OOC: Seriously, I mean this. You can't change it anyways since it is protected by the cultural protocols, which contains the necessary statistics for religion


I remember it being addressed by Reiko (through the in-forum messaging), where the player messaged me to say I'd be violating cultural protocols if I proposed a bill to have no national religion...
Reiko wrote:No national religion could be a violation if done too hastily

There would be only 1 law I'd need to change for there to no longer be a national religion, so I don't see what the relevance of the word "hastily" is.
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Re: Questions & Requests

Postby Valdštejn » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:52 am

Siggon Kristov wrote:
Valdštejn wrote:Thanks for that, but it should have been pretty obvious that this says little to nothing about the interest in religion. All it says is which religions are there, and how many are part of them. It says nothing about how the people feel about religion in politics, nothing about who the people will vote for.

Really?


Yes.

Religious influences: Primarily a diverse, and peaceful, three-way mix of Pagan (mostly Celtic Pagan), Christian (mostly Catholic), and Secular. A few small minorities exist too.

To me, that sounds like the citizens would be opposed to a single religion being mandatory (an optional variable of the state's policy on a national religion).
All the others seem as if the citizens wouldn't want religion to be banned (another optional variable of the state's policy on a national religion).


If they're opposed, they will vote against it. This has got nothign to do with the cultural protocols. All the protocols can say is what kind of religions exist. Any one party state, both in particracy and the real world, can basically do what it wants, regardless of the culture. Look at the beginning of the Soviet Union. There was a country in which the vast majority would have adhered to Orthodox Christianity, which is peaceful as well. It didn't stop them from having a bloody civil war, and from forbidding the religion. Look at Bahrain - there you have a majority of Shiite moslems, but the state religion is the Sunni one.

It is actually very easy - if it is cultural, and if it can be changed/destroyed by the players, then it can be protected by the protocols. If it is game mechanics, not influenceable by the players, it doesn't need protection, and it won't get one - because it is already protected by the game mechanics themselves.

And please see the comments on this bill... http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=337956
I could agree to Article 2 and other moderate articles in the future, but I will have to vote "no" against this bill as it violates Indralan tradition.
Indrala has numerous state religions which are more cultural symbols. Also, 90% of all Indralans are adherents of any one of those religions: Heaven Worship, Qamido, and Dharmism.

OOC: Seriously, I mean this. You can't change it anyways since it is protected by the cultural protocols, which contains the necessary statistics for religion


I remember it being addressed by Reiko (through the in-forum messaging), where the player messaged me to say I'd be violating cultural protocols if I proposed a bill to have no national religion...
Reiko wrote:No national religion could be a violation if done too hastily

There would be only 1 law I'd need to change for there to no longer be a national religion, so I don't see what the relevance of the word "hastily" is.


So? Reiko would have been wrong, since the national religion bill is pure game mechanics.
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