Requests: Plagiarism Reviews

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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby colonelvesica » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:34 pm

Aquinas, I will have an answer for you in two and a half hours. Chitin and I have RL Committments that stop us from issuing a much largest statement.

Jack has been removed as WC Coordinator, and I will personally work to clear the forum of everything you've brought up.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby jrandle8 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:49 pm

Aquinas wrote:
colonelvesica wrote:
Aquinas wrote:Thank you for your response, which I respect, jrandle8. I do not think anybody wishes you to be banned over this, least of all me.

I'd like it noted I apologize for not responding personally to this publicly earlier.

Following Aquinas report I reached out to Jrandle to confirm the details of the report and performed a deep audit of Jrandles posts in Yingdala since he arrived. Having found no evidence of further plagiarism with the exception of the examples Aquinas provided I am reasonably certain that the two posts were the only ones. The examples have been scrubbed from the game and their Role Play obviously deemed void.

Having also considered Aquinas suggestions I will be taking these to the Moderation Team and Wouter to discuss indepth and will be reporting back by no later then the 18th of March.

As usual Aquinas thank you for being as through as you were for catching it.


As can be seen up thread, my last plagiarism report did not receive a response from Moderation for 5 days.

When Vesica finally did respond, he assured me he would be reporting back about some of the issues I raised by 18th March. It is now 8th April, and this has not happened, nor has there been any further update of any nature.

Four days ago I messaged Moderation privately regarding a further 3 instances of plagiarism found on the forum. I was assured this would be dealt with.

As of this moment, nothing appears to have actually been done, and the three plagiarised pieces are still on the forum, in full public view.

One of these pieces was written by jrandle8 in a post dated 25 March, 15 days after I reported a previous post of his for plagiarism (see up thread). I have now logged in to the forum to discover jrandle8 has been appointed World Congress Coordinator.

Please let me make absolutely clear I believe jrandle8 is a good thing, and I am delighted he joined our community and is participating in our RP here, and I hope he continues to RP here for a very, very long time. I have no reason not to believe the second plagiarism incident, which was a plagiarism of a section of the United Nations Charter, was done without an understanding that was not an appropriate thing to do. ie. If you are going to use a document like that, OOCly acknowledge it in your post rather than passing it off as though you wrote the whole thing from scratch yourself. So Jack, I'm sorry if I've embarrassed you, and I want you to know my sense of frustration here is not primarily directed at you. I cannot emphasise enough though that we all, ALL OF US, need to appreciate plagiarism is never acceptable. Don't trot out excuses. Just don't do it. That's all there is to it. There is a real need to raise awareness about what plagiarism is and that it needs to be avoided.

However, I cannot hide the fact that I feel enormously disappointed with the lack of seriousness with which the Moderation Team is treating the whole issue of plagiarism, which as we now know, has affected our small RPing community to a greater extent than most of us had once realised.

From my point of view, I feel I have spent a substantial amount of my personal time sincerely trying to help this community and its Moderators get this issue sorted out...and frankly, it feels like the ball is not bouncing back and that the time and effort I have put in has been for nothing.

I have always loved Particracy as a creative writing project, but the Moderation Team's attitude towards the plagiarism issue tells me this is not a community I really have a place in anymore.


Actually Aquinas, I am not embarrassed this time. I made this aware to Vesica almost a month ago and that I used the UN Charter as a reference. While I did not post the real treaty for the CESU that is completely different from the UN Charter, I did fail to provide an OOC source to the original post. For that, I do apologize. I was given time by Moderation to correct my mistake, however, I failed to do that in the allotted time. I just want you to know that as soon as Moderation found out about it, they contacted me personally on Discord, both of them separately, to solve the issue, so I do want to give kudos to Vesica and Chitin for moving swiftly in rooting out plagiarism.

Aquinas, I do respect you and your diligent work in "policing" the community. Without you, I'm sure the forums would be a cesspit of plagiarism that enhanced the rp of some members. I can speak for myself when I say this is that I have never used content not created by me to enhance my rp. That just requires too much work on my part which I am against. However, I don't believe calling for my removal as WC Coordinator was called for. What should have happened, in my opinion, is for you to call for my suspension from Yingdala, the CESU, or any and every nation for about a month or so. I just think that would have been more appropriate and had a much better effect. Now, I've wasted hours of planning for a position that I held for 12 hours. Don't get me wrong, I had fun in those 12 hours (mostly due to sleep), but the planning for expanding the WC roleplay was quite strenuous on my part. That work has now gone down the drain, not entirely your fault, but mine of course, however, still wish the outcome would have followed the game rules by suspending me from rping in countries. That would have been more feasible in my opinion.

Anyways, thank you for all you do Aquinas and I wish you the best. And, of course, I thank Moderation for their swift response as well as the work they both do for us all.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby Aquinas » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:17 am

jrandle8 wrote:Actually Aquinas, I am not embarrassed this time. I made this aware to Vesica almost a month ago and that I used the UN Charter as a reference. While I did not post the real treaty for the CESU that is completely different from the UN Charter, I did fail to provide an OOC source to the original post. For that, I do apologize. I was given time by Moderation to correct my mistake, however, I failed to do that in the allotted time.


Are you aware this has still not been done? Below I quote in full the post in question, as it appears right now, and with the plagiarised part in italics:

jrandle8 wrote:Mr. Wen Yazhu Yahui, Temporary Chair of the Confederate Economic Security Union General Assembly

1. Opening of the Meeting. The first session of the Confederate Economic Security Union General Assembly shall come to order. I would like to welcome each and every one of you to an organization that has been in the making for over a decade with a ton of planning going into the organization as a whole from the General Assembly to the Confederate Audit Union.

Before the Union can fully function, there are a few items that need to be taken care of. In front of you is the agenda for this organizational meeting:

Confederate Economic Security Union General Assembly 1st Organizational Meeting Agenda
    1. Opening of the Meeting
    2. Certify the treaties of the initial members
    3. Election of the Secretary-General
    4. Election of the Confederate Security Union Director-General
    5. Election of the Confederate Finance Union Director-General
    6. Resolution designating depositories for various funds and authorized signature(s) for various purposes
    7. Resolution considering the funding of the Union
    8. General Statements
    9. Other matters
    10. Closure of the Meeting

2. Certification of Treaty Passage by the Initial Members. Moving on to item number two. As stated in Article XI of the present Charter, it reads: "The present Charter shall be ratified by the signatory states in accordance with their respective constitutional processes. The ratifications shall be deposited with the Government of the Union of Davostan and Kivonia, which shall notify all the signatory states of each deposit as well as the Secretary-General of the Organization when he has been appointed. The present Charter shall come into force upon the deposit of ratifications by the Grand Union of Yindala Da Tong, the Union of Davostan and Kivonia, the Federated Socialist Republics of Trigunia, and the Directorial Republic of Endralon. A protocol of the ratifications deposited shall thereupon be drawn by the Government of the Union of Davostan and Kivonia which shall communicate copies thereof to all the signatory states. The states signatory to the present Charter which ratify it after it has come into force will become original Members of the Union on the date of the deposit of their respective ratifications."

The delegation leader to the CESU from the Union of Davostan and Kivonia has notified all signatory states of each deposit. The treaty ratification votes for each signatory has been filed with the CESU and entered into the official record. Any member may receive this information upon a request to the Secretary-General when appointed by this body. We will waive the reading of each certificate and certify the treaty ratifications of the initial members.

Presently, Davostan, Endralon, and Yingdala have ratified the treaty. Trigunia has failed twice to secure enough votes to ratify the Charter. Pursuant to Article XI of the present Charter, the treaty shall not come into effect until such time that all initial members, as stated in Article I, Section I of the present Charter, formalize such treaty with their government following the procedures set forth in their laws as pertaining to treaty ratification.

I must inform the members of this body that because of Trigunia's failure to ratify the present Charter, the Charter may not take effect; however, the organization may continue to function only in an interim state, with the appointment of the officers in interim positions, and limited power on decisions that pertain to the purposes of the Union. Administrative duties may commence, including the budgeting process. Trigunia will be placed as a limited member until such time their government ratifies the present Charter.

3. Election of the Secretary-General, CSU Director-General, and CFU Director-General The nomination and election process shall now take place. Member nations may present only one nomination. I shall now open the floor up for nominations.[/b]
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby jrandle8 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:26 am

Aquinas, honey, I OOC’d the source link to the post like I was asked. According to the rules, I’ve done my due diligence already. Yeah I can rewrite the post but as of this moment, I’m kinda at my limits. You’re just gonna have to be fine with the source link because I mean, i don’t know what to tell you. If that doesn’t satisfy your hunger to police then forget it, I’ll quit the game entirely and move on with my life.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby Rogue » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:01 am

As one of the main people that spoke out during the plagarism scandal i think its fair of me to respond. In no wat do i believe it was the intend to ban RL references when it came to charters of organizations, which are in fact not “licensed” or any of the sorts. The words in a treaty or organization are not subject to trademarks of any kind, if they were the Warsaw Pact could never have been a thing, being a near exact clone of NATO.

Now i honestly think that this situation is extremely dangerous and hurtfull to the game. Jrandle made a mistake, he admitted it, he got removed as WC coordinator and he tried rectifying his mistake. There is absolutely no need to continue on a personal rampage against him about this subject. Aquinas, you often raise fair points, this isnt one of them. Frankly if you are to continue driving players off the game by continuing to pound on them after a genuine apology and attempt at rectifying maybe we should talk about your at times extremely offensive caracature RP you did in Malivia, something you havent received any backlash for but should if you insist we need to follow procedures and rules.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby Kubrick » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:13 pm

Rogue wrote:As one of the main people that spoke out during the plagarism scandal i think its fair of me to respond. In no wat do i believe it was the intend to ban RL references when it came to charters of organizations, which are in fact not “licensed” or any of the sorts. The words in a treaty or organization are not subject to trademarks of any kind, if they were the Warsaw Pact could never have been a thing, being a near exact clone of NATO.

Now i honestly think that this situation is extremely dangerous and hurtfull to the game. Jrandle made a mistake, he admitted it, he got removed as WC coordinator and he tried rectifying his mistake. There is absolutely no need to continue on a personal rampage against him about this subject. Aquinas, you often raise fair points, this isnt one of them. Frankly if you are to continue driving players off the game by continuing to pound on them after a genuine apology and attempt at rectifying maybe we should talk about your at times extremely offensive caracature RP you did in Malivia, something you havent received any backlash for but should if you insist we need to follow procedures and rules.


Hard disagree. If you didn't write it you don't post it. That's the only ethical line you need to remember when it comes to writing stuff for RP. Unless you're quoting another character or writer from the same community there is no reason to copy paste entire sentences. It's lazy, unethical, and defeats the purpose of roleplaying. I thought we all did this to interact with each other and display creative writing? Or is it to compile unreadable piles of text written by other people to.. why even? Boost your own ego? Show others you can make big news posts? Bump 'your' nation in the rankings?

It's also quite despicable that you deflect this entire situation by making it about Aquinas' writings. And of course Jrandle's attitude to this whole situation ("Without you, I'm sure the forums would be a cesspit of plagiarism that enhanced the rp of some members." - "Now, I've wasted hours of planning for a position that I held for 12 hours." do the crime, pay the time, anyone? - "If that doesn’t satisfy your hunger to police then forget it, I’ll quit the game entirely and move on with my life.") as if Aquinas is some beast lurking the PT forums to ruin the lives of poor well-meaning roleplayers.

There is no excuse to copy and paste. It gets people fired and blacklisted in academic circles and we are all writers here; it's not done as a writer to copy and paste. So stop making this about how unjustly you are all being attacked by the 'Monster Aquinas' and start looking into the mirror. And Mr.God, Archangel, Rogue, or whatever you're called this week: don't try to make this about something else. If you have a problem with Aquinas his writings then post that in the appropriate thread but this weird white-knighting for plagiarizing is a bad fit.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby Rogue » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:36 pm

Kubrick wrote:
Rogue wrote:As one of the main people that spoke out during the plagarism scandal i think its fair of me to respond. In no wat do i believe it was the intend to ban RL references when it came to charters of organizations, which are in fact not “licensed” or any of the sorts. The words in a treaty or organization are not subject to trademarks of any kind, if they were the Warsaw Pact could never have been a thing, being a near exact clone of NATO.

Now i honestly think that this situation is extremely dangerous and hurtfull to the game. Jrandle made a mistake, he admitted it, he got removed as WC coordinator and he tried rectifying his mistake. There is absolutely no need to continue on a personal rampage against him about this subject. Aquinas, you often raise fair points, this isnt one of them. Frankly if you are to continue driving players off the game by continuing to pound on them after a genuine apology and attempt at rectifying maybe we should talk about your at times extremely offensive caracature RP you did in Malivia, something you havent received any backlash for but should if you insist we need to follow procedures and rules.


Hard disagree. If you didn't write it you don't post it. That's the only ethical line you need to remember when it comes to writing stuff for RP. Unless you're quoting another character or writer from the same community there is no reason to copy paste entire sentences. It's lazy, unethical, and defeats the purpose of roleplaying. I thought we all did this to interact with each other and display creative writing? Or is it to compile unreadable piles of text written by other people to.. why even? Boost your own ego? Show others you can make big news posts? Bump 'your' nation in the rankings?

It's also quite despicable that you deflect this entire situation by making it about Aquinas' writings. And of course Jrandle's attitude to this whole situation ("Without you, I'm sure the forums would be a cesspit of plagiarism that enhanced the rp of some members." - "Now, I've wasted hours of planning for a position that I held for 12 hours." do the crime, pay the time, anyone? - "If that doesn’t satisfy your hunger to police then forget it, I’ll quit the game entirely and move on with my life.") as if Aquinas is some beast lurking the PT forums to ruin the lives of poor well-meaning roleplayers.

There is no excuse to copy and paste. It gets people fired and blacklisted in academic circles and we are all writers here; it's not done as a writer to copy and paste. So stop making this about how unjustly you are all being attacked by the 'Monster Aquinas' and start looking into the mirror. And Mr.God, Archangel, Rogue, or whatever you're called this week: don't try to make this about something else. If you have a problem with Aquinas his writings then post that in the appropriate thread but this weird white-knighting for plagiarizing is a bad fit.


I was, together with Aquinas, one of the people that was disgusted by plagiarism and called for a hard crackdown when it first occured. Those instances, when they first popped up, where horrible. Entire articles with just nation names and organizations changed. It devalued those that did their RP originally without any form of plagiarism. To that i say: crack down on it.
That is what happened here, Jrandle was removed from his WC position, has apologized (before the post you quoted, which was a logical reaction to the continued crusade) and promised to do better. After his apology Aquinas decided to rattle up more accusations regarding treaties and the text in them, which was determined during the original period with plagarism to be acceptable unless a entire document was copied, which isnt the case here.

This entire situation is bringing the levels of paranoid behaviour to another level and is NOT good for this community. Me and several others have stayed silent when this first popped up, because Aquinas had a point with his first mentioning of Jrandle. But this continued discussion has shown that once the train rolls, it cant be stopped on its own and i condemn that behaviour. There have been a good bunch of players, some active RPers and some more casual players, that have complained on both the forum and discord about these situations, which demotivates them and just causes unnecessary hate towards eachother. Besides that, i am also quite irritated that those involved in this behaviour no longer actively play the game, which just baffles me and shows that something needs to change.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby Aquinas » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:29 pm

jrandle8 wrote:Aquinas, honey, I OOC’d the source link to the post like I was asked. According to the rules, I’ve done my due diligence already. Yeah I can rewrite the post but as of this moment, I’m kinda at my limits. You’re just gonna have to be fine with the source link because I mean, i don’t know what to tell you. If that doesn’t satisfy your hunger to police then forget it, I’ll quit the game entirely and move on with my life.


Firstly, please don't "honey" me. Secondly, I am struggling to understand why you think it is so unreasonable for you to be expected to edit your post in order to acknowledge the source you adapted for your RP. This would only take you a few moments - less than the time it took you to write the post you have just written. According to your own account of events, Moderation asked you to do this almost a month ago.

Given at the current time you have still not done the the edit and show no signs of intending to do so, I suggest Moderation should carry out this task themselves.

colonelvesica wrote:Aquinas, I will have an answer for you in two and a half hours. Chitin and I have RL Committments that stop us from issuing a much largest statement.


Please don't take this the wrong way, but in my experience with you in Particracy over several years now, I have noticed a long, long record of you giving out commitments which you never go on to meet.

colonelvesica wrote:Jack has been removed as WC Coordinator, and I will personally work to clear the forum of everything you've brought up.


Will you? This is an honest, genuine, absolutely serious question btw, please don't take it the wrong way.

Rogue wrote:As one of the main people that spoke out during the plagarism scandal i think its fair of me to respond. In no wat do i believe it was the intend to ban RL references when it came to charters of organizations, which are in fact not “licensed” or any of the sorts.


If, as a "main person" or whatever, you had bothered to follow the conclusion of that discussion as opposed to just dabbling in the usual casual self-important mouthing off which is so characteristic to you, then you would appreciate that a rule change was announced which prohibited plagiarism

6. Role-play content must be original work and plagiarism of any kind is strictly banned. Players may quote or reference real-world material provided that this is limited and that they link to the original source in the text.


James is not here, but knowing him as well as I do, I am sure he would want me to apologise to you on his behalf for the fact you still have not read the rules about plagiarism and still do not understand what plagiarism is and why it is not appropriate for a community of creative writers like ours.

Rogue wrote:Now i honestly think that this situation is extremely dangerous and hurtfull to the game. Jrandle made a mistake, he admitted it, he got removed as WC coordinator and he tried rectifying his mistake. There is absolutely no need to continue on a personal rampage against him about this subject. Aquinas, you often raise fair points, this isnt one of them. Frankly if you are to continue driving players off the game by continuing to pound on them after a genuine apology and attempt at rectifying


Everyone else has drawn the obvious conclusion as to the sincerity of Jack's apology and his seriousness re: his attempts to rectify his mistakes.

There is no "personal rampage" on my part; self-evidently there is one on on yours.

Every single player who has been exposed for plagiarism has continued playing the game afterwards. I have no intention to drive anyone away. To the contrary, there have been several instances now where my personal stance re: the plagiarisers has been softer than that which was taken by Moderation. But to answer your question more broadly, whilst I feel some empathy for the sense of embarrassment and/or misplaced indignant sense of outrage a person might feel after being exposed for plagiarism... I do not feel that we, as a community, should allow plagiarism to go unchallenged simply on the grounds that doing so might upset the feelings of some (not all) plagiarisers. If we are going to go down that road, we may as well stop challenging people who break the rules on Cultural Protocols or RL references, because doing that might hurt someone's feelings too.

Rogue wrote:maybe we should talk about your at times extremely offensive caracature RP you did in Malivia, something you havent received any backlash for but should if you insist we need to follow procedures and rules.


I am sorry if you feel that way, although I would gently remind you of the difference between OOC and IC and the need to separate the two and keep any untoward personal emotions in check. Without that, as the more mature and long-term players here will appreciate, this game would fall to pieces and we would have endless arguments with people complaining about each other's RP all the time and whether or not it was "offensive". However, this thread is about the issue of plagiarism, so please stick to that and do not derail this discussion any further.

Rogue wrote:I was, together with Aquinas, one of the people that was disgusted by plagiarism and called for a hard crackdown when it first occured. Those instances, when they first popped up, where horrible. Entire articles with just nation names and organizations changed. It devalued those that did their RP originally without any form of plagiarism. To that i say: crack down on it.
That is what happened here, Jrandle was removed from his WC position, has apologized (before the post you quoted, which was a logical reaction to the continued crusade) and promised to do better.


Your characterisation of players identifying and reporting plagiarism as some sort of malicious crusade is unintelligent.

Rogue wrote:After his apology Aquinas decided to rattle up more accusations regarding treaties and the text in them, which was determined during the original period with plagarism to be acceptable unless a entire document was copied, which isnt the case here.


I need to remind you again that plagiarism is unequivocally and explicitly banned in Particracy, under the Game Rules. Again, please read them and familiarise yourself with what plagiarism means.

You are correct, though, that during the original discussion about plagiarism, the then Moderators, Auditorii and colonelvesica, after first of all claiming (falsely) that plagiarism was okay in Particracy and had never been against the rules (it had been before the rules were butchered), put forward this bizarre proposal:

Roleplay posts (notably newspaper posts) must contain a majority of original content. The total plagiarization of real world articles, texts with Particracy-relevant material added in roleplay posts is prohibited.


The fact the pair initially insisted plagiarism was okay, and were initially so resistant to dealing with it properly, is one of the reasons why, at the time, I found it difficult to feel either of them had the credibility or leadership to take this community forwards in relation to plagiarism. Nevertheless, I gave them a chance...and whilst I would really, really, really like to say I have confidence in colonelvesica now... any objective examination of what has gone on lately points to only one conclusion, frankly.

Chitin it seems has now been party to some mistakes... I still struggle to understand how anyone could think appointing a person to a position of responsibility who had plagiarised so recently is sending out the right signal... although I do appreciate he is new, so provided he makes clear a commitment to tackling plagiarism and shows some leadership, I'm all for giving him another chance.

Rogue wrote:This entire situation is bringing the levels of paranoid behaviour to another level and is NOT good for this community. Me and several others have stayed silent when this first popped up, because Aquinas had a point with his first mentioning of Jrandle. But this continued discussion has shown that once the train rolls, it cant be stopped on its own and i condemn that behaviour. There have been a good bunch of players, some active RPers and some more casual players, that have complained on both the forum and discord about these situations, which demotivates them and just causes unnecessary hate towards eachother. Besides that, i am also quite irritated that those involved in this behaviour no longer actively play the game, which just baffles me and shows that something needs to change.


The only "paranoid behaviour" on display here is on your part, even if you lack the self-awareness right now to recognise this. If you are this determined to protect plagiarists and plagiarism in the game... what can I suggest? I suppose you could go over to Alpha; I've seen discussions amongst users on their server which makes it pretty plain plagiarism is a thing there. But don't bring all the pro-plagiarism activism to Particracy Classic, please. Some of us here are serious about RP.
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby robmark0000 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 pm

Rogue wrote:maybe we should talk about your at times extremely offensive caracature RP you did in Malivia, something you havent received any backlash for but should if you insist we need to follow procedures and rules.

Actually its quite ironic that you are the one bringing this topic up, after this:

Image
(It was on the official Particracy Discord server.)
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Re: Plagiarism reports

Postby colonelvesica » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:50 pm

Will you? This is an honest, genuine, absolutely serious question btw, please don't take it the wrong way.


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