DIC Hobrazia

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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby AngryMollusc » Mon May 18, 2009 9:28 pm

rep wrote:I cannot emphasize more that human right are an issue of democracy. In no other regimes, be them totalitarian, authoritarian, sultanistic, post-totalitarian, are the human rights preserved and protected. Rutania does not want to prove that elections were falsified or manipulated but that democracy is deficient in Hobrazia. And this concerns the activity of the DIC. I might quote academically more sophisticated definitions of democracy to underline that the issue of human right is integral part of the problematic of democracy.
The DIC is not a commission investigating electoral frauds but investigating democracy. Thus, I firmly believe that human right is a matter of concern for our present commission.

We would dispute this assertion with extreme vehemence. Whilst we share our Rutanian colleague's zeal for the propagation of human rights, to confuse them with the issue of democracy would be an error unworthy of this institution. If a nation's democratically elected government cannot withdraw human rights, should that be the will of the people- surely that too is in its way undemocratic. Democracy is essential to preserving human rights; this we do not dispute. However, it is a classic fallacy to conclude from this that human rights must therefore be essential to the preservation of democracy.
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby rep » Tue May 19, 2009 7:26 am

The intellectual precariousness of the Kafuri representative astonishes me. He was using the same argument as all the dictators used to justify their repressive rule. They all said that they are the true interpreters of the people's will and thus they can do whatever they want in the name of the people. If the Kafuri representative does not see where is the logical and argumentative mistake, I cannot help it.
If we want to take the most basic definition of democracy (OOC: just in order for AM to understand) democracy is government of the people, for the people and by the people. This does not mean that elected officials are ruling in the interest of only those people who elected them. This situation is called the dictatorship of the majority, when the stupid many rules over the clever few. In order to avoid this situation, democracy presupposes a certain procedures by which the protection of every minority, unrepresented in the government, is ensured. As far as I can see the situation is different in Hobrazia.

I say again, slowly: democracy means not only elections. This commission was created for the investigation of DEMOCRACY, and one criteria of DEMOCRACY (besides ELECTIONS) is constituted by HUMAN RIGHTS. Ergo, this commission investigate also HUMAN RIGHTS.
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby AngryMollusc » Tue May 19, 2009 5:40 pm

rep wrote:The intellectual precariousness of the Kafuri representative astonishes me. He was using the same argument as all the dictators used to justify their repressive rule. They all said that they are the true interpreters of the people's will and thus they can do whatever they want in the name of the people. If the Kafuri representative does not see where is the logical and argumentative mistake, I cannot help it.
If we want to take the most basic definition of democracy (OOC: just in order for AM to understand) democracy is government of the people, for the people and by the people. This does not mean that elected officials are ruling in the interest of only those people who elected them. This situation is called the dictatorship of the majority, when the stupid many rules over the clever few. In order to avoid this situation, democracy presupposes a certain procedures by which the protection of every minority, unrepresented in the government, is ensured. As far as I can see the situation is different in Hobrazia.

I say again, slowly: democracy means not only elections. This commission was created for the investigation of DEMOCRACY, and one criteria of DEMOCRACY (besides ELECTIONS) is constituted by HUMAN RIGHTS. Ergo, this commission investigate also HUMAN RIGHTS.

Oh dear. Our Rutanian friend appears to be a need of a quiet lie down. For those of us who can still maintain our self-control, however, I will say this. Despite Rutania's repeated attempts to tar us with this brush, we are not and never will be enemies of human rights. We are certainly not, as their interesting straw-man would suggest, supporters of dictatorship. However, we respectfully submit that if a dictator is periodically re-elected by democratic means, without interference or vote-rigging, solely through the consent of the people: why then, that man is not a dictator at all. It is not the dictator who has elected themselves interpreter of the people's will, but the people themselves. Whether you like their policies or not,they are in power by democratic means, on the back of popular consent.

We understand that Rutania feels the need to defend its allegations, which have proved insubstantial in the extreme. However, this does not excuse its constant attempts to deliberately misconstrue certain reprehensible and regrettable behaviour on Hobrazia's behalf as undemocratic. Once again, we humbly suggest that Rutania propose the establishment of a separate commission to investigate this matter.

OOC: Of course I understand, foo' :P You seem to be forgetting this is a game- do you think I actually agree with what my character is saying?
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby rep » Tue May 19, 2009 5:51 pm

My animated style is not the sign of anger...anyway. I would be interested what is the opinion of the Voronan and Barmenian representative. Is this present commission only an electoral supervisor? Or a commission investigating all the aspects of democracy and thus human rights?

In other words, should we include in our field of interest the issue of human rights?
I ask the for members (Vorona, Barmenia, Rutania, Kafuristan) to vote on this issue!

Rutania votes for the inclusion of the human rights problem.
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby AngryMollusc » Tue May 19, 2009 6:18 pm

rep wrote:My animated style is not the sign of anger...anyway. I would be interested what is the opinion of the Voronan and Barmenian representative. Is this present commission only an electoral supervisor? Or a commission investigating all the aspects of democracy and thus human rights?

In other words, should we include in our field of interest the issue of human rights?
I ask the for members (Vorona, Barmenia, Rutania, Kafuristan) to vote on this issue!

Rutania votes for the inclusion of the human rights problem.

An excellent suggestion. We of course vote against.

OOC: Just an FYI- on the internets, caps=shouting and generally indicate anger.
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby rep » Tue May 19, 2009 7:09 pm

AngryMollusc wrote: OOC: Just an FYI- on the internets, caps=shouting and generally indicate anger.


OOC: I do not expect you to comprehend the linguistic nuances of the discourse's style...but all in all it is not an issue of importance.
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby AngryMollusc » Tue May 19, 2009 8:11 pm

rep wrote:
AngryMollusc wrote: OOC: Just an FYI- on the internets, caps=shouting and generally indicate anger.


OOC: I do not expect you to comprehend the linguistic nuances of the discourse's style...but all in all it is not an issue of importance.

OOC: Odd way of conceding defeat :P

Seriously, caps on the internets- as a general rule, don't do it. Consider this a friendly warning because I can't help but rather like you. Anyway, I think this is enough OOC for now, don't you?
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby rep » Wed May 20, 2009 9:14 am

I was informed by the our Foreign Ministry that the elections of November 2758 brought the fall of the Nova Terra government. It is a great pleasure for us to announce the DIC about this recent improvement. As far as I see, the function of this commission ceased to exist. Perhaps we should send our findings to the International Court if Justice to procede with the investigations, and if neccesary, condemn the crimes committed by the former Nova Terra government in Hobrazia.

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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby Rumbold90 » Wed May 20, 2009 12:05 pm

"The Voronan Delegation most strongley agrees with our friends from Rutania. Human rights is a central part of democracy. We vote in favor of including human rights abuses in our reports. We should be able to report human rights abuses in un-democratic nations.
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Re: DIC Hobrazia

Postby AngryMollusc » Wed May 20, 2009 4:20 pm

rep wrote:I was informed by the our Foreign Ministry that the elections of November 2758 brought the fall of the Nova Terra government. It is a great pleasure for us to announce the DIC about this recent improvement. As far as I see, the function of this commission ceased to exist. Perhaps we should send our findings to the International Court if Justice to procede with the investigations, and if neccesary, condemn the crimes committed by the former Nova Terra government in Hobrazia.

Veronica Mayday

On the contrary. This revelation makes the concerns of impartial investigators about the conduct of the First Party during the previous election all the more relevant. We should wait for more full reports from observers present during these elections before proceeding.
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