Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby grayman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:31 am

Benjamin Roth, Beiteynu Minister of Foreign Affairs
Seeing as Beiteynu is already in compliance with the Chart of Fundamental Principles, we have no legal problems with being a signatory. The legislation is loose enough to allow for a wide range of government types, yet rigid enough that it preserves the core principles of democracy that we in Beiteynu hold dear. Because of that, we are willing to ratify.

That does not mean we don't have issues with it. Our issue is not with the fundamental principles themselves, but with whether this new legislation over-steps the intended purpose of the Majatran Alliance.

Beiteynu joined this Alliance with the goal of economic and militaristic cooperation with our neighbor states. We did not sign up to become part of a social pact, or to impose our standards on our neighbors. If Istalia is putting this forward to amend or expand on the original treaty, they are more than welcome to do so. But they should also know that expanding the scope of the Majatran Alliance beyond its original purpose may be a tough ask for some nations... Already there are two nations that seem vehemently opposed to this proposal. As for Beiteynu, we will have to discuss this further; again, we're willing to ratify it, but are hesitant about expanding the Majatran Alliance beyond its initial purpose (especially without the support of all the nations).
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby Axxell » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:30 am

Valentina Vitali, Foreign Ministry of Istalia

Mrs Akhun,
very well... it is clear that this organization in the future will be charaterized by different group of members with different kind of integration and partecipation, a majatran alliance at different speeds.
We expected to find such difficulties, like in other contexts, and for this reason the Istalian administrations worked on different treaties related to different field. Unfurtunately there are no possibilities to exclude the article to contrast any form of discrimination into the armed forces, we will not accept this. But you are free to not ratify the treaty. This will greatly affect the relations of your country with other members and I think this will affect also the degree of benefits, especially economic one, that your nation will be able to have.
As said, one cannot have one's cake and eat it. The Majatran Alliance can offer one of the largest common market of Terra where a member nation can export and import easier goods, materials and money, where its workers can have privileged services and work easily in other country, where the financial market can boast an important stability thanks to the mechanims of the MACU which can in turn assure stability to the national currency.
But this organization has not been founded just to be an economic organization, the treaty of the Majatran Alliance it is clear on the fact that among the primary objectives of the organization there is the protection and promotion of democratic principles. It is not a case if today Deltaria and Kafuristan are suspended and we have clearly already expressed similar concerns on the peace solution reached in Deltaria.
So, nobody is forced to ratify this treaty, but then, do not be surprised if other member will adopt different relations with your nation or will vote in a determined way into the Executive Committee of the Alliance on this or that issue.

To respond to the Minister Roth, instead, can we ask to remark what provision made a "socialist pact" this treaty on foundamental Principles? You said that in this treaty "the legislation is loose enough to allow for a wide range of government types, yet rigid enough that it preserves the core principles of democracy". You said right! It was thought for a wide rage of Government types and to enhance veritably the mission of the Alliance, and we would just report here an extract from the Alliance's founding treaty which says:

"CONVINCED of the importance of strengthening and diversifying their relations on an equitable and mutually advantageous basis in a long-term perspective always promoting and respecting the democratic principle and the respect of the most basic human rights"

promoting and respecting are the keywords! And this Chart of Foundamental Rights is nothing but a treaty thought to promote and make respect democracy and human rights.
And, just to say... this treaty has been mainly drafted by a nationalistic party, no socialist party had part in the creation of this treaty. It is not the fault of this administration if in Istalia even the Nationalists or the Communists understand how should work a democracy.



About the invective made by the Prince of Pontesi, instead, well... It seems another useless blabbering and allegations about communism and socialism but this time also insults and discrimination against the homosexual, about which we don't really understand the motivation of these discrimination and how does that concern this debate.
This organization doesn't exist to fight this or that ideology, this organization was founded primary to defend the rights of the human beings in Majatran from illiberal, dicatorial and totalitarian regimes. The fact that at the time of its foundation this organization was born to contrast a socialist regime doesn't mean that the Majatran Alliance is a counter-socialist or communist organization and what is sure Istalia will do the possible to avoid such degradation of the organization.

Indeed, we protest formally with the Pontesian Government for his insult against an ideology which is the one of several other governments currently in power in Majatra and other historical parties well known around the world for their committment against any form of dictature. Like In Marea-Civis Sinistram, a party which cannot but receive praise, congratulations and global plause, considered at the global scale as one of the most democratic, liberal, tollerant national party of the recent centuries of Terra, which is a self declared socialist party.
The Prince of Pontesi, furthermore, insulted member parties of the current government of Istalia which are insipred to socialism, he insulted the Government of Cildania, we can also said that he insulted the Government of Jakania, which ruling party inspired itself to the socialdemocracy, which is nothing but a descendant of socialism, he insulted citizens all over the other members of the Alliance which belong and believes in socialist, social democratic, communist ideologies and parties.

And about the allegations against Istalia about to be a warmongering nation, well... can his excellence the Prince of Pontesi come here in person to say before all the other nations of the Alliance who started an armed uprising? Who attempted a violent coup? Who unleashed a civil war? Istalia maybe? You should have a great courage to declares such falsity! Indeed, Mr Nikolai Von Thaller is a war criminal and nothing else!
And... a last word for the Prince, if you think that the Majatran Alliance is an organization which judges a person on the basis of his family, if you think that the Majatran Alliance is an organization which promotes the ideas of a fixed position for every person, you are wrong!

Instead, we profit of this moment to plaude and congratulates the Government and the political forces of Barmenistan for their great entente in deciding to abolish all form of corporal punishement in their nation: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=559935. A great signs of civilization which we cannot but praise.

If Pontesi has nothing else to say to improve this debate, nobody force its government to continue to attend this session in the light of the fact that it is better for you insults and launch unfouded allegations. We have just showed the clear inconsistencies and critical issues of your legislation about the political rights diffusion in your country regarding the values of this organization, from an accademic point of view about what is a Democracy. There are not Pontesian democracy, istalian democracy or selucian democracy. There are principles without which simply there is no Democracy, and to exclude a merchant, a factory workers, an architect or an employee just because doesn't own a piece of land is not at all something which can have something to do with democracy!
It's not the socialists to say it, it's not the communists to say it, but 4 millennia of jurisprudence, philosophy, political thought and history. We doesn't attack without elements this or that party or this or that ideology. And... I think that in Majatra there are very few nations which can talk with more authoritativeness about Democracy than Istalia which, despite your allegations, is as well recognized as one of the most democratic, liberal and tollerant nations of the world, recognized by numberous international organizations and voted into the Security Council also precisely because its deep devotion to the democratic cause.

The conseguences of your decision will emerge in the future relations between you, the Alliance and the other members. Will be the other members to decide how to relate them with you. What is sure is that Istalia will continue to commit itself to contrast such relativistic behavior, to promote the true democracy and liberty, to promote equal rights for every single human beings born into a member nation of the Majatran Alliance. Do you want not to have obligations but just benefits? This will never happen since Istalia will be into this organization!
An international organization is also this, like any other international treaty, agreement, entente and so on: a nation commit itself to respect some agreements established with other nations. Any international treaty or organization in a way or another limits the sovereignty of a nation. If you don't want such limitations, why agree to sign a treaty or enter into a supranational organization?
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby grayman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:29 pm

Benjamin Roth, Beiteynu Minister of Foreign Affairs

After some deliberation, and as a result of the Istalian response, we are fully prepared to sign the Chart of Fundamental Principles. Our view is that the treaty aligns with our principles, and there's already a provision in the original document about maintaining democratic and human rights standards. This just solidifies those standards as concrete policies.

To the government of Jakania: like the Turjaks in Jakania, the Yeudish people have an overwhelming majority in Beiteynu. But unlike Jakania, we do not attempt to exclude those in the minority from public service. The people of Beiteynu, Yeudish and non-Yeudish, cannot condone a military that refuses ethnic minorities. We urge Jakania to change this discriminatory practice and let your citizens be free.
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby Elf » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:26 pm

Theodora "Thea" Melodia, Atabeg of the Hawks

It sedans us to witness that Istalia is doing its best to turn this alliance, from an institution promoting peace and freedom on our diverse continent, to a hate- and war-mongering, neo-colonial institution with the aim of promoting Istalian culutral imperialism and interests at the expense of the peoples of Majatra. Anyone who cannot handle the issue of advancing democracy and human rights with cultural sensitivity and within the multi-cultural context of our Majatran societies should not be dealing with those issues. The intelligent calm and cooperative mindset of nations such as Pontesia helped save potentially millions of lives at the time where the Istalian war-monger sought to prop up a radical regime in Deltaria.

I ask my colleagues in the alliance to confirm and solemnly declare that this so called 'Fundamental Principles of the Majatran Alliance and Common Economic Area' has absolutely no basis in the Majatran Alliance and Common Economic Area and nothing to with our institution. Alas, as far as I know, we have no constitutionally defined way of dealing with a situation such as this - when our intellectual property is being misused for something that not all of us have agreed to. But even if we cannot prevent the Istalian war-monger from misusing the name of our institution for their own little project, we can at least solemnly reject it as part of our institution.
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby Aethan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:27 pm

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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby 13ShinyTie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:57 am

Aurora Adorinda, Istalian Minister of Foreign Affairs,

It seems the honourable Pontesian speaker fails to understand the principles of this institution. I wonder if it is ignorance or blindness which plays a role here because even the initial treaty of the creation of his organization, with all its faults, clearly states that its more than just an economic agreement. It's long term goal is Pan-Majatran integration which is impossible if some member nations decide to treat some of their own people as a second grade species and justifying such an act with "independence". Moreover, calling Istalia a war mongering, neo-colonialist nation is absurd as clearly I would not be engaged in dialogue in that case, but instead troops would be on any opposing country's soil. Moreover, no Istalian government during the Deltarian crisis has broken neutrality of sides, instead supporting a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government, just like now we look at the democratically elected government in Deltaria with the Thallers in charge. Disregarding our personal preference. But to you the principles of democracy, rule of law and equality in front of the law - FOR YOUR OWN NATIONAL CITIZENS - seem to be rather unknown.

If Pontesi has problems with Istalia or the Majatran Alliance, nobody forces Pontesi to remain. And due to the fact that Pontesi dares to support a war criminals like Nikolai Von Thaller, it would not be a great loss!
Istalia, despite the falsity of Pontesi, received supports from Beiteynu, from Cildania and also from Selucia, for its "attempt of neo-colonialism", the ridicoulous term used by Pontesi for one of the most revolutionary documents ever produced in Majatra!

Thank you.
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby Elf » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:36 pm

Joanna Caespasius, Pontesian Minister of Foreign Affairs,

The Istalian delegation seems dangerously confused and ignorant of the history of our Alliance, as well as its founding charter and principles. The Majatran Alliance and Common Economic Area was founded in the wake of the threat faced to this continent by the revolutionary socialists of the MRSF, to safeguard peace and tolerance among Majatrans. Not to embark on any similar radicalist crusade, thinly veiled this time as promotion of Democracy. There is nothing in the founding charter of the Majatran Alliance that legitimises this incredibly destructive behaviour, rather, it states:

RESOLVED to provide wider opportunities for their governments and their peoples to work together in a spirit of understanding on matters of mutual interest in the political, economic, trade, commercial, social, cultural and other fields,


The Istalians are currently doing everything in their power to ensure that there can be no such thing as "their governments and their peoples to work together in a spirit of understanding on matters of mutual interest", for Majatrans, contrary to our organisation's constitution. Perhaps we ought to discuss Istalia's future in this organisation, rather than Pontesia's?

Pontesia has never voiced its support for any Deltarian government, nor attempted to meddle in its internal affairs in any other way, other than by voicing our opposition to the neo-colonialist war-mongering of the Istalians and calling for a peaceful dialogue. One that was fortunately successful. The dangerous mentality of the Istalians regarding this institution can only be described as 'neo-colonial', for it sees it as a right to force its values down the throats of what it apperarently believes constitutes "lesser races" among our Majatran siblings. We who really care for Pan-Majatran integration as outined by our founding charter, must voice our opposition to this. Currently, we have two members suspended, and I don't see countries like Jelbania, Vanuku, Badara or Kalopia joining an institution that doesn't respect Majatran values or their way of life. The lack of a multi-cultural competence on the behalf of the self-appointed prefects and leaders of this organisation is astounding, considering what an incredibly diverse and pluralistic continent Majatra is.

Perhaps the only way to save this organisation would indeed be another, complementing Charter, but one that clearly outlines what this Alliance should and should not meddle its nose into. That way, Istalia can go on being a northern-style, culturally radical state, while we can preserve the delicate balance in our multi-ethnic community, Deltarians can continue to live like Deltarians. Etc. Despite grave violations of human rights and civil liberties going on in Istalia, such as regarding the right of its citizens to bear arms, and the slaughter of thousands of innocent babies, we have no desire to force our way of life on Istalia or any other member of this organisation. This neo-colonialism has to stop, if we want the Majatran Alliance and Common Economic Area to continue to be a functioning and relevant institution in 44'th century Majatra.

Anyway, we shall insist on this body declaring it's non-inclusion of this so-called 'Chart of Fundamental Principles'. Otherwise, we may have to write one ourselves, based on tolerance and mutual respect, as outlined in our founding charter.
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby Polites » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:02 pm

Lofrkadkai Nrlbábé, Barmenian Minister of Foreign Affairs,

The government of Barmenistan finds that Istalia is right in seeking to gain the continent's consensus on fundamental human rights and liberties and move Majatra away from the millennia of autocracy and violence that have retarded Majatran development and prosperity for so long. However, we also believe that what matters more than lofty abstract principles is economic and political stability and development. Good institutions lead to good governance and good governance leads to a prosperous and tolerant citizenry. So rather than chastise member states that fail to live up to Istalia's haughty rhetoric, the Majatran Alliance would do better to foster economic integration and the development of the continent's weakest economies, while promoting stable and efficient political institutions. Rather than marginalize nations that do not live up to some governments' ideals, we instead call on the Alliance to offer their full support to all nations that aim to achieve stable long-term development and choose compromise over violence. For that reason we call for the suspension of Deltaria to be lifted and full support be offered to the Grand Republic, provided all parties abide by the Čachtice Agreement, instead of further criticizing the Deltarian government for failing to comply with an Istalian treaty that they have not ratified. A peaceful compromise ending a potentially disastrous civil war is something that should be praised and encouraged, not endangered through unrealistic demands.
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby 13ShinyTie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:03 pm

Aurora Adorinda, Istalian Minister of Foreign Affairs

I thank the Barmenian Minister for their constructive criticism and we are, as we were, open for dialogue on the matter as for years the Principles have been drafted and we asked for contributions. Sadly, the contributions in forms of critique came after the drafting process and caught us by surprise. Nonetheless, we are willing to listen to any specific complaints. However, let me clarify, we are not criticizing the Deltarian government's failure to comply to a treaty which they did not sign, we are criticizing the actions of Nikolai von Thaller's government and its supporters following the previous elections, where the SU has gained mass support which led to assassination of their ministers and civil war. Moreover, we are criticizing the failure of some delegates present here to recognise that for the Majatran Alliance to function ESPECIALLY in the economic areas of society all human beings must at least be regarded equal by law, without the nobility having such extensive powers over people. The Fundamental Principles allows for nobility priveleges which do not constrain your normal people.

To Pontesia, we must say that they probably live on a different planet. The amount of "civil rights" in Istalia in the eyes of my own party is excessive! We just stand for democratic values which are equal for everyone. Not more not less. We are not telling you to kill babies. We are not telling you to abandon your guns or religion and we are not telling you to overthrow your kings and queens!

The treaty just obliges all citizens of the nation to be treated equally in front of the law: man, woman or child. Royal or peasant. Employer or employee. Hell this treaty even allows for torture and capital punishment if you so please! What specifically does bother you and we can discuss this without any further direct insults.
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Re: Majatran Alliance's Allied Common Executive Commission

Postby Elf » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:27 pm

Joanna Caespasius, Pontesian Minister of Foreign Affairs

On the subject of this 'Charter of Fundamental Principles', which was complied without a mandate from the Alliance and cannot have any constitutional status in this organisation, I have had my secretary go through the human rights situation in Istalia, and there are apparently some very pressing concerns:

Istalia sanctions the murders of its own innocent babies, called 'abortions', on demand. Some Istalian children are also denied their roots and their tribe through practices such as "surrogacy". Istalia allows for cruel and barbaric experiments on animals, even for the sake of sheer pecuniary profit, and Istalia allows for cruel commercial whaling. Istalia denies its citizens the right to bear arms, and obviously the right to form private military companies as well. The government forces parents to inject vaccines from Big Pharma into their children. Smoking is illegal inside government buildings.

Yes, apparently - there are a lot of glaring human rights abuses and other uncivilised behaviour going on Istalia. Especially if one really takes a perspective from Majatran values and doesn't pretend to live in some rootless cosmopolitan state somewhere in Artania or whatever. Yet, we Pontesians are a peaceful and tolerant people that do not wish to force our way of life upon you or anyone else. We understand that Majatra is a diverse and multi-cultural continent, and that causes like freedom, peace and human rights can only be achieved by respecting this fact. Some things, like smoking inside public buildings may seem risible for both you and us to be mentioning from human rights perspective, but can we say that to nations such as Barmenia or Jalkania where water pipe smoking is an integral part of their culture and daily life?

That's why this neo-colonialist talk of forcing ones own values out of their context upon other nations must stop. You can have whatever legislation we consider barbaric you want in your country, but only if you respect other countries right to have legislation you consider equally barbaric. Istalia has no mandate and no right to sit on a high horse and act like the self-appointed human rights prefect of this organisation. We already have our friends in Selucia contemplating to leave thanks to your reckless behaviour, and I'm sure more will follow. Pontesia, however, will not. We will stand and fight for the original values of this organisation. We believe in Majatra, all of Majatra, not simply ourselves or any neo-colonial notions of cultural and ethnic superiority over others.
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