Permanent Summit of the Non Aligned Movement

Organizations whose scope is global and which all national governments may theoretically participate in.

Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Doc » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:08 pm

Felix Li, Representative of Kalistan

If there is no objection then, I will ask the Foreign Minister of Kalistan to begin rafting language for the Non-Aligned Movement that will include these sentiments in the preamble and will ensure that the language reflective of what I surmise to be the general sense of the meeting thus far into "Article 1- Membership."

I have already extended an invitation to Lodamun and Baltusia, and will resend. If anyone else can think of non-aligned states who might be willing to join, please do contact them. I think those who oppose the Northern Alliance intervention into Dovani should be a good place to start.

Additionally, Kalistan has already begun the process of withdrawal from our treaties with the larger states:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=576165

Just as an example of what we had in mind. We echo the sentiment that discretion of the individual member states should be exercised above all else.
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Doc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:05 am

Felix Li, Representative of Kalistan

Foreign Minister Hashimoto reports that he has gotten a start on the Treaty based on our discussions so far.

We seek comment, amendment and addition.

http://classic.particracy.net/viewtreat ... atyid=4165

Nothing is off the table, as for content. We are absolutely interested in recording the ideas of this meeting faithfully and coming up with a document that all are satisfied with and will enthusiastically support in their nations.
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Polites » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:26 am

Haider bin Talal al-Mutanabbi, Consul of Selucia:

My colleague and Co-Consul Seia Nerva asked the Selucian delegation to convey her concerns and fears about this Organization. She fears that the Movement may attract those nations who have been expelled from and condemned by major alliances due to their human rights violations and repressive domestic policies. While we believe that the purpose of the Non-Aligned Movement is narrow and specific, dedicated to depriving Great Powers and large power blocs of allies to fight in their wars, and thus any nation that shares that goal should be welcome into the movement, I understand my colleague's concerns that this may become a dictators' club. We therefore suggest an addition to the membership criteria to require a certain amount of scrutiny into the internal policies of prospective members. Not a requirement for full democracy or the entire panoply of international human rights, but rather an exclusion of nations engaging in egregious crimes against humanity, such as slavery or genocide. Caesar Nerva also expressed her concern that the Non-Aligned Movement risks becoming its own alliance and power bloc. I am convinced that the treaty, as currently written, is sufficiently limited in scope to avoid members becoming entangled in a collective defense agreements with each other, but perhaps stronger language is needed to allay the fears of both prospective members and foreign powers that the Non-Aligned Movement is just another large alliance with its own global ambitions. Apart from these concerns, we find the treaty as drafted by the Kalistani representative to be most agreeable and we would be proud to sign and submit it to our legislative for ratification.
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Doc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:31 pm

Felix Li, Representative of Kalistan

We understand you, Comrade.

The Draft does include language explicitly excluding those who have committed "Crimes against Humanity" and "violations of sovereignty."

While we share the concern that the NAM not become a dictator's or Dead Enders' Club, we are also concerned that it not become yet another liberal club. Kalistan, for one, is not interested in exporting ethical socialism around the world, nor do our values necessarily represent smooth conformity to liberal values. For example, we have several times closed shipping through our territory, quite in contravention to the so called "Law of the Sea" and have subsequently left that treaty when supposedly liberal nations rebuked us and attacked us unjustifiably. We have nationalized several major industries and we have led an actual Cartel whose business is supplying the world with hard drugs for more than 2000 years. You can imagine that "liberals" of the world, interested in forcing Kalistan into conformity with their view of the world, will accuse Kalistan therefore of violating "human rights" and could, someday, use that designation to eject Kalistan.

We want to make sure that even nations, who Great Powers have called "pariah" could conceivably have a place in the movement too.

I beg indulgence for standing on Kalistani Privilege, but if some of these "rejects" which the Caesar speaks about are denied an opportunity to join us, how soon will the criteria cover a country like Kalistan? Surely Kalistan's position is clear.

I would ask you, my Selucian Comrade, to craft language which would satisfy the Caesar, and allow even Kalistan to be covered. That would be most welcomed.
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Polites » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:27 pm

Haider bin Talal al-Mutanabbi, Consul of Selucia:

Thank you for your response, Representative Li. I have conveyed it to my colleague and I am awaiting for her reply, or, if she so wishes, she may address this conference herself. It is important to note that, while my own party remains committed to the principles on which this Movement is to be founded, not all political forces in Selucia share our enthusiasm. There are those in Selucia, as we believe are to be found in every nation, that have a stake in the maintenance of the current neoliberal world order and are suspicious of any attempt to challenge it. To the extent that the current global system benefits some and harms others, as is true with any world order, it is inevitable that any change may provoke reactions, not only internationally but domestically as well. I shall do my best to make sure internal opposition to the goals of the Non-Aligned Movement do not prevent Selucia's membership in such an organization.


OOC: If you don't mind, I have two very minor nitpicks with the treaty:

* "As neo-liberalism imperialism" I think is a typo, probably meant to say "As neo-liberal imperialism", at the very beginning of the treaty
* "Res Publica Selucia" is actually "Res Publica Seluciae", meaning "Republic of Selucia"
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Aethan » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:15 pm

Seia Nerva, Caesar of Selucia

As a representative of the government of Selucia, we are concerned about the lightness, and above all, the contempt, that is made of the adjective "liberal" in this meeting. With that attitude, this will not get very far.

In relation to this alliance, a red line that the government of Selucia maintains is respect for human rights, which are above anything else. And for that reason, I will not consent to a nation with a long history of neutrality and that has always preferred to focus on improving the quality of life of its citizens, and in case of being involved in a war, collaborate only with medical equipment and investigations and diplomacy such as Selucia, to be associated with other nations that, in their national laws, commit any violation of human rights (against minorities or against their own human integrity), because, as a saying goes, "better alone than bad accompanied". And that is a red line. It is not a matter of ideologies, but of empathy.

Apart from that, and as my colleague has already commented, if this alliance is constituted, and after the harsh criticism of many members present here have done to existing alliances as "imperialists", among other adjectives, let's hope that this alliance does not tie neither military nor economically to the nations that conform it, but rather it is constituted as a group of nations that really want to remain neutral in the useless confrontations that some global powers develop among them, while maintaining their own dignity and rejecting those nations that attack individual liberties.

With all this, the government of Selucia is open to study it.
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Doc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:59 pm

Polites wrote:
OOC: If you don't mind, I have two very minor nitpicks with the treaty:

* "As neo-liberalism imperialism" I think is a typo, probably meant to say "As neo-liberal imperialism", at the very beginning of the treaty
* "Res Publica Selucia" is actually "Res Publica Seluciae", meaning "Republic of Selucia"


Check. I will make those corrections. They are, of course, oversights and lack of education in Latin. ;)
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Doc » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:31 pm

Felix Li, Representative of Kalistan

Great Caesar of Selucia, It is an honor to make your acquaintance.

Perhaps I undermined my own message with the words I chose. Allow me to restate, in light of Caesar's response.

My use of the word Liberal, in scare quotes, as they say, suggests that Kalistan is suspicious of countries who use liberalism as a bat. Kalistan is governed by the principle of liberty: Ethical Socialism is inherently liberal in its orientation. If Caesar has not done so, we would invite her to read the works of our Party's ideological founder, Edward Bennots. You can see a brief summary here: https://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Ethical_Socialism

There you will see a strong commitment to individual liberties. You may also look at the Socialist Party of Kalistan's libertarian credentials, which demonstrate that we believe that the fewer restrictions placed on individual lives, the freer they are and the fewer criminals our society produces.

On the other hand, neo-liberal ideals of free markets, limited government (especially limited involvement in economic activity, though max restriction in individual rights like freedom from excessive police presence, freedom from max restrictions on the human body, and max restriction on popular dissent against the Government) and so called "liberationist" movements which are really just imperialism, seem to be all people mean by "liberalism" today. We do not see a strong committment to peace and individual liberty in the world: If a rightist libertarian claims to support liberty, they mean the liberty to be eaten by capitalism, and that's it. See, for example, the so-called libertarian Party that is rising right now in our friend Sekowo, calling themselves Revival. Their first public statement is to blast cultural pluralism and the "tyranny" of socialism. Individuals are not to make up their own mind: No, dissent of their ideology is prima facie called "tyranny".

Standing opposed to rightist libertarianism is the so-called "liberalism" of the center left, which claims to support liberty, but frames liberal ideas in the form of greater access to markets and the government for minority populations. There is no calls to eliminate the hierarchcal nature of society and establish true equality which would eliminate the need to "work" to eliminate barriers. No, left liberals treat the symptoms while the patient slowly drowns in their own blood, while refusing to address the knife in the throat of the patient. They look at the world and say, "There is nothing we can do about the destruction that capitalism is doing, so we may as well give people a bandaid."

The real advocate of human rights, Forgive me, Madam, is the person who works for liberation FROM the monster of capitalism. Excuse me: the one that works to eliminate need. We have done this in Kalistan: The entire society looks to need, so that people are free from need and may pursue wants. It is need, hunger, and lack of access to basic services, because liberals see people who are on their own as freer than those who rely on society for help, which is what is the greatest violation of human rights. Poverty due to misallocated resources at home: Forcing poor people to accept charity so that those who have more than they need can keep all of it as well as much of their neighbor's as well. It is the taking of seconds before everyone has had firsts, that is the biggest human rights violation that is committed in the world today: bigger than a million nuclear bombs. And it is the liberals who allow need to continue to exist, because their focus is on getting more consumers into the market, both of capitalism and of politics.

If we are suspicious of liberalism in Terra today, it is not because we do not look to human rights. We are supremely committed to the advancement of humanity, and the alleviation of human suffering. We are committed to solving the problem which causes suffering. We are not convinced that liberals who look at symptoms instead care about human suffering at all. Instead, they sit around and tell themselves that they are the best, and anyone who opposes them are monsters. So they invade and conquer and kill, to force others to adopt their methods too. If it appears that we oppose liberalism, it is only because liberalism does not solve any of the problems: It merely makes a small segment of the people feel better about those problems. It means more brands, rather than better quality. More Parties, rather than quality candidates. It means freedom to, rather than freedom from.

If that makes us illiberal, perhaps the Caesar is correct then. But the position taken by the SP, and I hope this organization, which I would hope is not at all an alliance, but an association, that solving problems related to human need is the greatest commitment to humanity: more so than simply offering more aid to starving millions around the globe, without resolving the problems that cause them to starve in the first place.

We hope the Caesar does not judge us too harshly. There is more than one way to improve the lives of human beings. It is the liberals who insist that there is only one way, market capitalism, and charity when the markets fail people. We like to think we have a more vibrant imagination than that, and I ensure the Caesar, The Socialist Party of Kalistan will do all that the Caesar needs to assure her that this Organization is committed to the cause of human rights and the end of human suffering. This is the point of cooperation in the first place.
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Guga17 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:12 am

Chika Oshiro, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Sekowo:
We would like to start by entirely subscribing to what the representative from Kalistan just said. However, we think it should be discussed what does crimes against humanity include as we may have different opinions on that and believe that should get clarified in the treaty. Is crimes against humanity just slavery and killing of innocent people or does it also include persecution and criminalisation of minorities? We support diversity of opinions in the Non-Aligned Movement but there also should be limits on what countries should do to their own people. In addition to that, we think that 50 years may be too much time and that nations that have changed leaders since committing crimes against humanity or violating another country's sovereignity decades ago should be considered into the Non-Aligned Movement if they obey to all other membership requirements and officialy condemn the actions of their leaders in the past. Besides that, we've nothing to object or question and totally support the whole treaty. We hope to get a clarification by Kalistan on what crimes against humanity is to them and what does the definition in the treaty include. Thank you!
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Re: Non-Aligned Movement Formative Meetings

Postby Doc » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:18 am

Felix Li, Representative of Kalistan

I have monopolized enough time for the present. Let me just say, I also hope to obtain clarity with regard to what the Selucian Representatives mean by crimes against humanity and human rights.

I have asked several times for specific language. I think we would all do better if Selucian actually wrote the section and provided specific language that could be included within the Treaty. When Kalistan alone writes it, obviously we will reflect our point of view first, as faithful as we attempt to be to the views of the meeting. Since this is a matter of both great import to our Selucian friends and one which none of the rest of us are clear, I would invite the Selucian Caesar to compose the actual language, and be as explicit as she likes, so that we can at least consider what she has on her mind precisely, rather than being left to guess and being wrong or coming up short ourselves.

Let me add, it is my hope all members of this meeting contribute materially to this document. Kalistan has begun the task. I invite Sekowo and Selucia to join us in authorship, so we all hang together, one way or another.
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