Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby Liu Che/Zhuli » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:10 pm

Hall of Preserving Peace, Heavenly Palace, Tian'an, Han, Great Indrala

The diplomatic conference taking place between the Baltusian and Kalistani delegations regarding the Mr. Karl Benn will take place in the Hall of Preserving Peace in the Heavenly Palace of Tian'an, Han, Great Indrala. Given its unique history of fraternal bonds with both nations, Indrala shall serve as neutral ground for the nations to discuss their issues, hoping to maximize a peaceful resolution. Diplomats of the Celestial Empire, overseen by Chief Counselor Zhong Lan, will observe the discussions taking place, intervening only to prevent violence. When requested by both parties, the Indralan government will act as a mediator and/or arbitrator.

Each delegation will arrive in Tian'an in the coming week, to be housed at separate palaces in the Heavenly Palace ground. All will be provided for them by the Indralan government, including excursions to areas outside the palace and other recreational activities to foster greater cooperation.

A conclusion to the conference will occur when a peaceful agreement is reached.
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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby jamescfm » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:21 pm

Serhat Aslan: Greetings to all assembled. I am here as the leader of the Labour Party's delegation. The President has invited all Kalistani parties to send diplomats to these talks but, whilst we wait on their arrivals, we would like to begin the proceedings by attempting to confirm with our Baltusian counterparts the events that led to the situation in which we find ourselves. If we can agree on key issues, then that will go a long way to repairing the damage done to the relations between ourselves and our Seleyan brothers. Therefore, we will present a rough timeline of events as we have perceived them and we request that the Baltusian delegation inform us of where they believe we are incorrect:
-Karl Benn is arrested and tried by the Baltusian government for operating a paramilitary
-Prior to his sentencing and facing the death penalty, Benn flees across the border into Kalistan
-Benn is sentenced to 20 years in prison, although his sentence is reduced due to time already spent locked up
-A motion is put to the Baltusian congress to have Benn extradited
-The Justice Minister, Premier and President of Kalistan- all of different parties- make it clear that Benn cannot and will not be extradited
-'The Kalistan Benn Enquiry' bill is proposed by the Conservative Party of Baltusia, claiming that Kalistan's 'laws are unacceptable' and stating Kalistan 'must be sanctioned'
-At the same time, the 'Preparing for war act' is proposed
-The People's Army and the Revolutionary Socialist Militia of Kalistan partake in routine emergency procedure exercises
-The Baltusian Armed Forces are moved towards the Kalistani border, amongst other actions
-The Conservative Party of Baltusia proposes that a DMZ is created in spite of this movement of troops
-Talks begin in the Hall of Preserving Peace, Heavenly Palace

We will accept a response from any Baltusian party but would prefer one from the President, Defence, Justice or Foreign Affairs Minister's.
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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby matthewleitch » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:36 pm

Maureen Granger, Baltusian Justice Secretary

Good afternoon to the whole delegation assembled, we await the arrival of the President along other Cabinet officials. However I would like to give, what I believe, is a more thorough timeline of events:

-During a period in which terrorist attacks happened almost daily, President Aaron Richardson fully condemns the use of paramilitaries in Baltusia, he gains the support of Congress and Parmitaries are officially illegal.
-Kruger Sec, a centre right 'so called security firm' are prosecuted and abolished for defying the governments paramilitary laws.
-Many parties inform the government about the Revolutionary People's Army, a paramilitary who were fighting 'several small battles'. These parties believe that justice should be done and the RPA should be dealt with in the same manner as Kruger Sec.
-As a result the Public Prosecutor takes up the case and presses charges on Karl Benn, founder and leader of the RPA.
-Mr Benns charges for firearms are acquitted by a multiple judge panel, however he is found guilty of paramilitary charges and sentenced to 20 years, minus 1.5 years for pre-sentence jail, making his sentence 18.5 years. He is able to apply for parole at 8.75 years.
- Mr Benn makes a speech informing Baltusia he has sought asylum in Kalistan to avoid jail.
-The Baltusian government are outraged by Kalistans decision to allow a convicted felon avoid justice, they fear it could encourage crime. They believe that criminals may think that they could commit a crime and then escape to Kalimantan even after sentencing. They propose an extradition bill for Mr Benn
- The Kalistani government don't allow Mr Benn to be extradited. However one party in Kalistan does support Mr Bemns extradition.
-The Kalistan Benn Enquiry Bill is created by the Conservative Party, they believe that Kalistan could potentially become an International crime escape and therefore the Conservatives raise that there policy should be brought up on the International stage. They indeed propose that if Kalistan does not cooperate internationally then they could potentially face sanction.
- The Preparing for war act is proposed by the Freedom Party. That Bill proposes that Baltuia should declare was on the Yeudish Republic. This bill is irrelevant to this particular situation and the bill itself received a resounding opposition and condemnation by all but 1 party.
-Two left wing Kalistani party paramilitaries begin training on the Baltusia-Kalistan border, they say it is to become 'accustomed to the area'. Baltusia respond by moving some units forward towards the border. They are moved forwards as observational and defensive capacities. The order is given by the President that our forces do not have permission to engage.
- The Baltusian government proposes a DeMilitarized Zone method to deflate and resolve the Baltusia-Kalistan border crisis. The Baltusian Congress are unanimously in full support of a democratic resolution to a quickly escalating situation.
- Meeting is held at the Hall of Preserving Peace, Heavely Palace.

I hope that this provides a more in depth guide to events. Thank you. I welcome any responses by all Kalistani delegates
4042-4190: Baltusian Republican Party (Baltusia)
4190- : Republican Party (Cildania)

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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby jamescfm » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:25 pm

Serhat Aslan: Good afternoon, Ms. Granger. I would like to propose a few clarifications to the timeline you have put forward, if you please. We would ask that we tried to keep opinion or perception out of the matter at this stage, once the events have been established we can move on to motives, causes and so forth.

Mr Benn makes a speech informing Baltusia he has sought asylum in Kalistan to avoid jail.

We feel it is unfair to say that Mr Benn sought asylum in Kalistan for the explicit purpose of avoiding his prison sentence. Whether or not there was a genuine threat of persecution, in his speech Benn says that he fears for his human rights and that is the reason why he had fled.

The Baltusian government are outraged by Kalistans decision to allow a convicted felon avoid justice, they fear it could encourage crime. They believe that criminals may think that they could commit a crime and then escape to Kalimantan even after sentencing. They propose an extradition bill for Mr Benn

The laws which are described here as encouraging crime have been in place for hundreds of years so it is unfair to say that they would suddenly cause an outburst of criminal activity.

The Kalistani government don't allow Mr Benn to be extradited. However one party in Kalistan does support Mr Bemns extradition.

It should be made clear that it wasn't that the government didn't allow the extradition, we legally could not extradite him. It's true to say that one party did support Mr Benn's extradition, the Conservative Independence Party, but they would not have been able to extradite without facing a law suit in Kalistan's Constitutional Court.

The Kalistan Benn Enquiry Bill is created by the Conservative Party, they believe that Kalistan could potentially become an International crime escape and therefore the Conservatives raise that there policy should be brought up on the International stage.

We will reiterate our objection to the proposition that Kalistan could become a crime escape, Kalistan's laws far pre-date all of the parties in the Baltusian government. If our nation was going to be a hotspot of fugitives it would have become so long ago.

The Preparing for war act is proposed by the Freedom Party. That Bill proposes that Baltuia should declare was on the Yeudish Republic. This bill is irrelevant to this particular situation and the bill itself received a resounding opposition and condemnation by all but 1 party.

The bill is not irrelevant because, although we are now aware of the exact details of who proposed it, why it was proposed etc., at the time we were not. It undoubtedly impacted our decision making and this should be taken into account.

Two left wing Kalistani party paramilitaries begin training on the Baltusia-Kalistan border, they say it is to become 'accustomed to the area'. Baltusia respond by moving some units forward towards the border. They are moved forwards as observational and defensive capacities. The order is given by the President that our forces do not have permission to engage.

The area in question wasn't just the Baltusia-Kalistan border. Sections of the border were, admittedly, included but the Kalistani district of Vrassa wasn't even entered and the exercises went as far east as the Odufart Sea. We would also draw attention to the fact that the Patriotic Party of Baltusia made the claim that Baltusia possessed nuclear warheads, we would like a full explanation of this statement. Furthermore, these actions were taken within the same month that a DMZ was proposed. Combined with one party stating that Baltusia was going to engage in peace talks and combat- this was alarming to many in Kalistan.
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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby matthewleitch » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:46 pm

Maureen Granger Thank you for your response:
I would firstly like to say that Mr Benn said in his speech once he arrived in Kalistan, in his own words 'As I grow old I do not feel that I could serve a prison sentence'. He left Baltusia to avoid his prison sentence, he even admitted it himself.

Regarding the criminal activity- I understand that you have had these laws for a long time but We believe that as this case was so internationally prolific then many international criminals would see it and be encouraged to try similar acts.


I understand Kalistan have anti extradition laws however they should never have approved his asylum in the first place and actually researched the situation.

Regarding the preparing for war act- the Kalistanis shouldn't have immediately assumed that Baltusias' only foreign current affair is with themselves.

The DMZ was proposed after the paramilitaries began their border training alongside other Eastern training, in response to the situation, not at the same time.

I shall allow the patriotic party to fully explain their statement alongside the freedom party's engagement of peace talks then combat, by the way we condemn the Freedom party for saying that we would engage in conflict. That is not what the government wants to do. Thank you.
4042-4190: Baltusian Republican Party (Baltusia)
4190- : Republican Party (Cildania)

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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby jamescfm » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:17 pm

Serhat Aslan: I would like to be allowed to respond again to the comments from Ms. Granger.

I would firstly like to say that Mr Benn said in his speech once he arrived in Kalistan, in his own words 'As I grow old I do not feel that I could serve a prison sentence'. He left Baltusia to avoid his prison sentence, he even admitted it himself.

Although this is technically true, it is not a complete quotation. Mr Benn said, "as i grow old baltusia becomes more aggressive i do not think i could serve a prison sentence and have my human rights removed". Now what he is saying is that he couldn't serve a sentence because he would be persecuted, the exact specifics of this are irrelevant but it should be recorded that Mr Benn genuinely believed he would be targetted by the Baltusian government if he were to remain within their borders.

Regarding the criminal activity- I understand that you have had these laws for a long time but We believe that as this case was so internationally prolific then many international criminals would see it and be encouraged to try similar acts.

We simply do not buy this argument. Why would one act of a revolutionary fleeing from perceived persecution inspire criminals? At any rate, that would be a concern of the Kalistani government and not the Baltusian one, so there is no reason why their decision-making should have been influenced by it.

I understand Kalistan have anti extradition laws however they should never have approved his asylum in the first place and actually researched the situation.

We researched the situation and found that Mr Benn had not been found guilty by a jury and that the trial had taken place in Congress. Both of the crimes Mr Benn had been accused of wouldn't have been crimes in Kalistan: party militias and firearms are both legal. Therefore, we saw no reason why this man should have been prevented from remaining Kalistan and we certainly were not willing to break our own laws to do so.

Regarding the preparing for war act- the Kalistanis shouldn't have immediately assumed that Baltusias' only foreign current affair is with themselves.

'It is easy to be wise after the event.' At a time when we were threatened with sanctions and dealing with a nation in which terrorist attacks are apparently a daily occurrence, decisions must be made quickly. We took the decision to practise defensive manoeuvres, less than six months later we have a military on our doorstep. It seems to us that we made the right call.

The DMZ was proposed after the paramilitaries began their border training alongside other Eastern training, in response to the situation, not at the same time.

The DMZ was proposed at the same time, though, as Baltusia transferred its forces to the area which they were proposing to de-militarise. Surely, Ms. Granger, you must understand why a nation would be reluctant to remove all protections from a border which currently has foreign soldiers, helicopters, marine vessels and nuclear submarines watching over it?

We will now wait for a response from the Patriotic Party delegation. Once we have addressed their comments, we will begin to consider how the situation should be handled going forward.
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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby Doc » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:30 am

The Socialist Party of Kalistan sends Joseph Philander, who shall lead a 3 person diplomatic team from the SP.

Comrade Philander will catch up on the discussion, and shall issue a statement with regard to the situation.
Primary: Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK), Old School Since 2591

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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby Doc » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:58 am

I would like to add one clarifying statement to what the Labour Party aptly stated, and perhaps it will put things into perspective.

We did not grant Mr. Benn asylum. The Premier is not sure where this concept of asylum comes from. By arriving at and living in Kalistan, and by expressing a desire to remain indefinitely, Mr. Benn is a citizen of Kalistan. Those are our laws. And we do not extradite Kalistani citizens. There was no application for asylum, nor does there need to be. Mr. Benn will remain in Kalistan and any effort to seek his return will be illegal, because it will be a kidnapping. Mr. Benn has not violated any of Kalistan's laws, and therefore, we have absolutely no reason to take him into custody. And the only way we would deny him his liberty at any point was if he displayed socio pathic tendencies.

Therefore, whatever Baltusia says, Mr. Benn will remain at liberty in Kalistan, and he will not be returned, because it is against the law to extradite our citizens. We cannot comply with demands or requests from a Government that has zero jurisdiction on Kalistani soil. To expect as much is a violation of Kalistani sovereignty, and any violation of Kalistani sovereignty is a grave violation of international law and norms.

Until The Government of Baltusia and the Government of Kalistan conclude an extradition treaty, which Kalistan will never agree to, the Government of Baltusia has absolutely no standing in any international court or forum, and mobilization of the standing forces of Baltusia is an unmitigated threat to the sovereignty and security of Kalistan.

As any preconditions to any talks, we insist that the Government of Baltusia stand down their military, and allow the joint PA-RSMoK exercises, which are occuring entirely within Kalistani National territory and adjacent waters, to proceed without distraction. The Socialist delegation will not be counseling any agreement to any form of Demilitarized zone within the National Territory of Kalistan. The Lucid Valley and the Lower Lucid River is our National frontier, and the Socialists will not agree to evacuate a single inch of territory on our side of the long established border. Nor will we have our own internal security situation dictated to us by any other nation.

Thank you for your attention. I encourage the Chief Counselor to intervene and facilitate a more fruitful discussion than to allow this revision of history to continue.
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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby stuntmonkey » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:24 am

I thank this conference for giving me the opportunity to address issues that have been raised by the Kalistani delegation.

Firstly, I speak not just on behalf of the Patriotic Party, but as Defence Minister for Baltusia with a clear mandate to carry out my role on behalf of the nation.The bill I proposed to protect our borders was backed by a clear majority of parties, including all the coalition government parties. So let me be very clear, this is a decision taken by Baltusia not one party.

In regards to nuclear weapons, I make no spurious claim - Baltusia does have nuclear weapons, that is a fact. It is also well known we have submarine based nuclear weaponry which is approved by Congress. At all times, we have at least one nuclear-based submarine at sea as a matter of security, which is attached operationally to our main naval fleet. I was giving details of that fleet's position.

I stress again our rules of engagement - by executive order - are purely defensive and observational. I also stress what my Justice Secretary colleague said, that the Preparing for War act was proposed by an opposition party, was nothing to do with Kalistan and was roundly condemned by the vast majority of Congress.

In regards, to another point, if Mr Benn felt we could not uphold his human rights, why did he wait until after being found guilty and after sentencing? He was held in custody for a year and a half awaiting trial and made various court appearances during that time. Why not try to flee earlier if he was scared or in danger? I say he was simply edging his bets and hoping for a not guilty verdict, this is why we find the whole matter so distasteful.

Thank you,

Baltusian Defence Secretary Colonel Octavius Black
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Re: Baltusian-Kali Tian'an Talks

Postby jamescfm » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:58 am

Serhat Aslan: Firstly, a warm welcome to the two most recently arrived delegations- in particular to Mr. Philander. Now I feel some of Mr. Black's comments require scrutiny urgently.

The bill I proposed to protect our borders was backed by a clear majority of parties, including all the coalition government parties.

I think it is clear within this statement why we find the proposition of a DMZ within our own jurisdiction so appalling. The Baltusian government is amassing troops on their side of the border meanwhile simultaneously insisting that we remove all defences on our side! It is completely reasonable to assume that they are planning an invasion, or at least they were at one time.

Baltusia does have nuclear weapons, that is a fact.

This is extremely troubling. We were completely unaware of the fact that our neighbours had this capability, their recent behaviour suggests that they aren't worthy of this responsibility. I, personally, will not leave Indrala until the Baltusian government has committed to immediate and unilateral nuclear disarmament. There can be no agreement even approaching peaceful whilst one party maintains the capability to entirely obliterate the other at a moment's notice.

why did he wait until after being found guilty and after sentencing?

Firstly, Mr Benn fled before sentencing had occurred, so not only is this is untrue but the answer should be self-evident. Obviously, if Mr Benn had been found not guilty then he would not have to fear for his human rights in prison. Whilst we cannot speak for him, we think that should answer your question sufficiently.

Now that a general understanding of events has been gained by most parties, we wish to move forward to our conditions for returning to Kalistan without further escalation. The first has been alluded to above, we do not intend to conclude negotiations until Baltusia gives up its nuclear weaponry and signs the International Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Ban Treaty (see here: http://bit.ly/2bzwQT6). Furthermore, we request that the Baltusian government withdraws its respective requests for the extradition of Mr. Karl Benn, for the creation of a DMZ and for sanctions against Kalistan. Once these fundamental conditions have been met, we can begin to talk about how to prevent a similar situation in future.
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