Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby Maxington » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:17 pm

Devin Foreman, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Holy Luthori Empire.

The Alorian President has been championing this principles of "AU Elitism" and the "Supremacist powers". As previous explained we have no intention of removing "sovereignty" from member states. How could on peddle such an irrelevant, irrational and nonsensical principle without taking into consideration the proposals made during my initial championing of the return of the Union. Instead of attempting to champion the principle of reform, you want to champion the principles of defamation and nonsensical. Talking about the nonexistent "AU Elite" is not qualitative to the discussion. It only accentuates the irrelevance of your talking points and how you cannot reinforce your statements with the slightest bit of factual information. Please refer to my previous chastising if you want actual talking points. If you don't want to bring a sensible argument to the table, you should not be here. Why waste the time spreading such cancer throughout this discussion?
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby IntruderEmerald » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:52 pm

OOC: I think it is obvious it is clearly stated in the treaty. Also, my party has been against the concept of the AU from the start of its existence. There is simply no way we will rejoin the AU, or join a reformed version of the AU.


Margareta Schuchard, President of Aloria

Well, Mr Foreman, you have shown your true colours now. I have outlined many, many sensible arguments and I have opened them up to discussion today. However, you are unwilling to cooperate, you are unwilling to tell the truth and now you are telling me I should not be here. Mr Foreman, I know you like to silence your critics but your performance here today really is laughable. I would suggest you think about what you have said and consider how many contradictory statements you have made. Please, could you actually tell this conference what your plans are for a future Artanian Union, outlining how much integration there will actually be? Or are you too incompetent to do so? For once in your life, Mr Foreman, answer a question.
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby thewake » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:20 pm

We in Aloria have no interest in reforming the Artanian Union, we want no part of it. This is plain and simple. Our interests are bilateral trade deals. We do not want an organization which seeks to "promote free trade," as the Artanian Union treaty says. Instead, we will promote our own trade for our own interests. The very existence of the Artanian Mark also threatened national currencies. When does a reserve currency turn to a currency that usurps our national central bank's ability to issue Aloriks and conduct monetary policy? Certainly the Artanian Union has also been toothless and ineffectual in many respects, further showing that it is barely filling its intended purpose. It is a failed experiment, plain and simple. An experiment we want little part in, too. We want no part of this sort of integration which has been proposed in various forms, whether it has been proposed as part of the AU or not. We strongly support President Schuchard's sentiment. Our government wishes Luthori and all of Artania the best of luck, of course.

--Prime Minister Alfred Bundefeller, Aloria
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby Phil Piratin » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:44 am

OOC: So Max has left Luthori and gone back to Kazulia (which isn't even in Artania) and said on Discord he's no longer interested in this Artanian Union RP...

Max, when you started this thread, I thought you were going to listen to players and try to come to some sort of OOC understanding/compromise/whatever. Instead, no offence, but you've been negative and confrontational, both here and on Discord. It's been less about you wanting to engage and more about your wanting to "correct" anyone who doesn't share the same exact opinion as you. (And I say that as someone who is on your side.)

When I saw a RP Team member restarting the AU RP I was excited about it and thought you were going to help get things going. In Dorvik, we were all getting into it, and so were some other Artania players.

Less than 24 hours after you started this thread, you've abandoned the RP you started (without even bothering to inform us here - I only saw it on Discord). For me, it's disappointing, because I really liked what you started with, and I thought you could have helped us really build something RP-wise, if only you were willing to accept that some parties and nations would be opposed to AU membership.
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby thewake » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:04 am

OOC:

Eh give him the benefit of the doubt, it's obvious he's frustrated.

Either way, if Dorvik players are so interested you all should definitely continue the push. With Aloria being so nearby and so opposed to AU membership (or whatever other organization is thought up to replace it) we might have some interesting events.
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby Corvo Attano » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:47 am

OOC I am for AU RP but not anything more than a supranational union.

I will campaign against Malivia joining any kind of "Luthori commonwealth or union"



OOC2: Actually nevermind that I will discuss with the players of Malivia if we should leave and create a more free and Malivian led customs union without political implications.
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby Maxington » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:36 am

I would like to clarify something: My main intention for this revival was to (1) spark role-play and (2) allow players to become involved in a project which open the door the other role-play ideas i am currently planning behind the scenes. Throughout this week period since i launched the role-play initiative it has dawned on me that players simply didn't like the AU due to real-life implications. This sparked confusion for me because when i went through every Artanian Nation's newspaper (around the time they had their specific referendums), i found that most, if not all the talking points being used by the players were extracted from the brexit argument (with some even referencing actual brexit statistics). As has been my argument without this entire ordeal, if you want me to functional and realistic, I need realism from those involved. Bringing in these real life implications doesn't create a realistic environment (realistic in the sense of the events within the game) for they have no correlation to in-game events (nor can they be functionally and realistically tied to said events).

After seeing that no one wanted to at-least give the concept of a close political union a chance (mind you something as ambitious and broad as my plans had never been done before), it spiked my frustration of the entire situation. I began to question: Why would one talk about those things when they have no correlation to in-game factors? As i read through the news posts, i saw people talking about the Artanian Union being too supranational. This made me think: How could it be supranational when it wasn't able even conceptualise its "supranational" entities. But after contacting some players, they seemed eager to sit down and talk about the issue. Now, maintaining a high standard for some of the players involved in the discussion, i thought to myself: "Well yes, finally I'll be able to see what is making them think this way, and i'll finally be able to decipher how to move."

When i opened this thread, i opened it with the idea of everyone bringing their sensible positive/negative opinions of the Artanian Union, so i will be able to orient my strategy around their opinions. A bit more reading through the news posts and some minor RP tit-for-tats revealed to me that no one wanted to come to the table of discussion with a valid point on which we could build a discussion/debate on. Instead, I see things like: "During this and that war, the Artanian Union did nothing and as such it wouldn't do anything for anyone now." (Although i tried to point out that no one had time to think about the Artanian Union at the time and that role-play within its "chambers" was non-existent at the time it would be unrealistic to blame the AU for a factor it cannot control, others seemed persistent on the idea).

I would say this: The only functional argument, I have gathered from the role-play conducted over the past few days was that the Artanian Union was becoming old. (That is the only functional, realistic point, I got from this entire situation and I credit the person who brought it up). I wanted to build a discussion on that, but i was sidetracked by other factors which i have previously mentioned.

**It's not because I wanted persons to adopt agree into joining the AU. It is simply because i think that if you are going lambaste something both in OOC and In-Character, it's most preferable you lambaste said "thing" with a valid point. (A valid point: A factor which i have been championing through all the arguments and debates I've had had with persons behind the scenes).
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby IntruderEmerald » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:14 pm

OOC: Stop trying to claim we are not making valid points. We are making our points explicitly clear, yet you refuse to acknowledge them.
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Re: Artanian Conference on the State of the Artanian Union.

Postby kj#2 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:46 am

Image
Foreign Secretary Clifford Douglas of the Commonwealth of Rutania

Artania needs security and the Commonwealth of Rutania is in favor of working with other like minded nations on the continent to provide that security. Rutania is not the only nation on the continent to suffer from terrorism in the last decade, another attack should be prevented at all cost. The Commonwealth of Rutania holds the principles of a Free Market in a very high regard and we would like to ensure that any Artanian Union doesn't threaten the Rutanian economy. Ideally we would favor seeing other Artanian nations agree to uniform recognition of some of these free market principles. Lastly I would like to reiterate once again to the gentleman from Luthori that Rutania does not seek to have open borders nor allow free movement of the Hawu people into our lands, furthermore I believe the entire continent would benefit by recognizing the inferior nature of the Hawu people and the supremacy of the white-Artanian people. Lastly Rutania is here engaging in these talks mainly for the purposes of furthering the security of the Rutanian people, we will stand against any form of Luthori imperialism should events turn there.

I hope all parties here do recognize that we are interested in meaningful dialogue that works toward the betterment of Rutania and Artania.
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