Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby RedReaper » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:21 pm

His Excellency, Comrade Xiomar Buschmann, People's President and Marshall of the People's Army;

Ms Bunognini, everything is ideology except hard facts. The Septembrist attempt to enforce their vision of 'democracy' on us is in itself an imposition of ideology. The People's Party is more than happy to allow democracy in the People's State, democracy which is as good if not better than the Septembrist system. However, to pretend that only democratic decisions are involved in the process of revolutionary and counter-revolutionary conflict is wrong.

Right now the People's State has achieved many things that a party operating within a Bourgeois Democratic framework could never have achieved. There are multiple reasons for this, but the foremost is that the People's State has no influence exerted upon it by global Capital. Time and time again Communist parties which have attempted to use Bourgeois Democracy to achieve their ends have been crushed, by Capital Flight, by Boycotts, by Divestment, by Sanctions, by Coups and by Military Intervention by external Bourgeois Entities. There is nothing to say that we, upon surrendering all our gains and betraying all who support us, would ever be able to achieve the gains that we have already achieved at this moment again.

The democratic processes the you and the Septembrists propose would be perfect within a vacuum, but we do not live in a vacuum, we live in reality, where the forces of Capital will stop at nothing to end our revolutionary struggle. Therefore, we must ensure that our gains are supported, Constitutionally, in a way which ensures that they are maintained until such a time as the threat of external and internal Bourgeois influence is extinguished. A Communist party with 100% popular support, could still be defeated in the system that the Septembrists are proposing. This is not something that we are willing to accept.

We shall however, draft a preliminary text, a new Constitutional framework, one which the People's State would be willing to accept, and that hopefully the Septembrists would accept to.
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Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Martinulus » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:10 pm

Geraniengau

I think you were asked a question, Excellency. Will you participate in elections or not? Or can we interpret this paranoid diatribe of yours in the negative?

The patience of the citizens is running out. They want elections. You are the only party at this table delaying them. I suggest you stop.

Frau Bunognini. The Basic Law is so called because it is not intended to be a final constitution. Say the word and we dissolve the Imperial Diet for a general election to compose a final version of the democratic Constitution. With it without our friend here, if he should remain intransigent.
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Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Axxell » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:04 am

Ms Bunognini

I think that you have said enough Comrade... while Mr Geraniengau have said all.

Well... No... you too Comraid, regretably, have said something that can easily allow us to understand where this Conference will go: "A Communist party with 100% popular support, could still be defeated in the system that the Septembrists are proposing"
A democratic system is the one where everybody, every ideology, every party can be defeated, and... Communist party with 100% popular support? My grandfather saw this, at the time of the Majatran Revolutionary Socialist Federation. Do you know how many of the 100% of "supporters" of the Communist "democracy" my country welcomed?

Comrade, here we see you just trying to do the interests of only your party and your idea, talking to let the people choise but demanding that whatever is the will of the people your party shall be at the top of the Country, and maybe... you seems also proposing to isolate your people from the rest of the world, the "bad, ugly world", the same world which has the merit to have allowed you to emerge from the shadow of decades of dictatorship and to have crushed that dictatorship.

So, I think that we don't need to menace you with the use of our consistent military forces currently guarding your nation, we have contributed to the born of this new Hulstria, with resources, probably not only for us... and then, with men, a lot of men, and death. Death far from their homes to free a People, two People! For you.

So, we have all the right to demand from you compromises and the respecting of some rules.
Only one party is showing to be cooperative presenting proposal reasonable and fair here. They are not talking about foreign interferences, the same foreign interferences which freed your Nation, or about Bourgeois plots or demanding special privileges.

We tried to be inclusive and conciliatory, but... My Government should recognize that this attitude... failed.
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Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby RedReaper » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:18 pm

His Excellency, Comrade Xiomar Buschmann, People's President and Marshall of the People's Army;

Ms Bunognini, you misunderstand me. My point was that even if 100% of the population voted in support of a Communist Party, hypothetically, that due to the influence of Capital, the Communists would still fail to achieve anything, due to external and internal pressure from the Bourgeois. This is not us declaring Communism to have 100% support, it is us highlighting the inherent flaw in Democratic systems within Capitalist societies.

You say we are being unreasonable, you cannot be saying such a thing seriously? You demand that we surrender all our gains, that we lay down our arms, and that we turn ourselves over to the Septembrists on the off chance that we can win in future elections, elections which due to Capitalist influence, are inherently rigged. We ask for peace, for cooperation, for slow integration, but for both our successes and states to remain intact. How you can say in this circumstance that we are the unreasonable party in this negotiation is laughable.

No we will not take part in elections within the United Imperial Crownlands as long as the Basic Law becomes the sole building block of a new constitution. I thought that was already obvious. We don't believe that the Basic Law is good enough to ensure that any party which wins an election could carry out its aims and objectives, this applies to parties on the far-right as well as on the far-left. To ensure Democracy is valid, we cannot allow Capital to influence elections by any means.

You call us paranoid, do you not admit that if a Communist Party was voted in, that you wouldn't support other methods for eliminating it, Geraniengau? It is not hard to imagine a Communist Party, straight of the heels of an election win, to be ousted in a far-right coup, or to be attacked by a fascist foreign power. Such events happen all the time, Badara being the most recent example. Do not deny that this is the case.
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Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Maxington » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:40 am

In attendance for the Kingdom of Kazulia
- General Christoffer Sundby - Supreme Commander of the World Congress Military Coalition Hulstria
- Sigbjørn Helgeland - Kazulian - Ambassador to the World Congress
- Gustav Lambertsen - Director of Department I (Dovanian Affairs), Central Committee for Intelligence and Special Operations

Ambassador Helgeland
Although we intend on remaining impartial on the matter on the "capitalist vs communist" marginalisation of the reformed Hulstria, we believe that in-order to obtain the official recognition of the Kingdom of Kazulia and its successor states, the elected government must return Hulstria to a democratically oriented nation and remove the oppressive and fascist sentiments of the past. Furthermore, said government must compensate those killed under Operation Human Shield, and champion the return of a multicultural society within Hulstria. A government recognised by Kazulia must bring about the return of a stable and fair economy within Hulstria. Finally,
a government recognised by the Kingdom of Kazulia must uphold basic human rights, those bieng the .1 Right to life, Right to a fair trial, Freedom of speech, Freedom of thought, conscience and religion. If any government in Hulstria cannot uphold at-least one of the criteria's necessary, it does not deserve our recognition.


General Christoffer Sundby
The Kongeforsvar contingent, under instruction from Kazulian Defence Command, will begin its withdrawal once the threat of insurgency is quashed. The Septembrists and communists forces have not made aggressive concession towards our forces as such we do not intend on becoming embroiled in hostilities with said paramilitary organisation. However, Hulstria and Kazulia are not separated by bodies of water like Hutori, Istalia and Vanuku, but by a simple mountain range. If it becomes clear to us, that militant tendencies of the previous regime is to return from either side might it be the Septembrists or the Volksarmee, we will not hesitate to intervene once more. Let it be noted that such an intervention will not as light handed as this past intervention. The various parties involved in these negotiations are aware of how far the Kongeforsvar will go to defend its interests and make its presence known.


Lambertsen does not offer comments on any issues. He simply sits, observes and "takes notes".
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