Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Martinulus » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:32 pm

Hubert, Graf Michels

Then humour me, Herr Buschmann. What about the Basic Law is not conducive to security and prosperity? What is so objectionable about it? If it's not simply that we are not a Communist state and leave it up to the people to decide upon the policies to be implemented, then what?
Image
Hosianisch-Demokratisches Verbund - Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Notable previous parties:
Folkepartiet (People's Party) - Kazulia
User avatar
Martinulus
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 11:53 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby RedReaper » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:57 pm

His Excellency, Comrade Xiomar Buschmann, People's President and Marshall of the People's Army;

Why we are opposed to the Basic Law does not matter. We are not in an academic seminar. Pragmatism is key in these negotations, and at the moment the Septembrists lack this key quality. I would rather spend my time negotating peace with you Michels, than waste our time retreading ground already covered by discussions between our foreign ministers at the General Assembly of the World Congress.
User avatar
RedReaper
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Martinulus » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:09 pm

Hubert, Graf Michels

Why then, did you make the point about our Basic Law? If you cannot reinforce it, then how can you expect us to give you credit? You seem to be unwilling to integrate into the United Imperial Crownlands solely because we represent it and until you dispel that impression it weighs against you. The Constitutional order is directly relevant to the future of this country and to the reason for the intervention. It should be part of these discussions.

You must understand that partition of our country is unpalatable to us, especially not when the arguments whether there cannot be a single entity are being kept obscure. Partition caused democratic breakdown once too often in the past. It furthermore undermines the principled point that all citizens of Hulstria and Gao-Soto deserve a stake in the future of their country. It should not matter where they were born, they all should enjoy the same rights to participate in the democratic expression of the national will, as citizens of Hulstria and Gao-Soto. I am sorry, but if any of you is contemplating a partition of our nation, I must protest in the strongest possible terms. Hulstria and Gao-Soto are inseparable and indivisible.

Why do you consider us an enemy you are at war at all of a sudden, Herr Buschmann? What is this antipathy towards the 15th of September Movement and the future Hulstria and Gao-Soto it represents? What is so unreasonable about what we seek? We keep coming back to this point, and I am starting to come to my own conclusions that your chief problem is we are not every one of us Communists, or as you might say "bourgeois".
Image
Hosianisch-Demokratisches Verbund - Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Notable previous parties:
Folkepartiet (People's Party) - Kazulia
User avatar
Martinulus
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 11:53 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby RedReaper » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:36 pm

His Excellency, Comrade Xiomar Buschmann, People's President and Marshall of the People's Army;

I believed that you of all people, Michels, would know of the discussions between Comrade Eichenwald and Herr Fukuyama at the General Assembly. This matter has already been discussed. However if you indeed need reminding I will give this assembly a brief rundown of events.

Provisions within the Rights Of Citizens section of the Constitution of the People's State are not present within the Basic Law, and as the Citizens of the People's State as well as the People's State Government believe that these Rights are self evident and necessary, as well as just, we do not wish to integrate into a State where the Basic Law is the Supreme Law of the land.

The fact that the Septembrist side continues to pretend that there is no contention between the two Constitutions other than the section pertaining People's Party involvement goes to show that they are either being misleading towards the representatives within this negotiation or that they haven't even bothered reading the document that you are arguing against.
User avatar
RedReaper
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Martinulus » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:47 pm

Hubert, Graf Michels

Oh, we are fully aware. Let me share a few more very reasonable problems we have. For one, restricting the citizenship of anyone not employed is deeply anti-democratic. "He who does not work does not eat" is frankly inhumane as it denies a basic necessity of life. The qualification placed on the freedom of speech is unacceptable, as is the vague provisions banning "Capitalist" parties, which bans an entire flank of the political spectrum that should not by rights be denied participation in politics. Need I go on?

We would be willing to introduce positive rights declaring certain things to be the concern of the state, without prejudicing the means of state involvement, into the Basic Law. An article stating that the promotion of full employment is the continuing concern of the state, for example, would be acceptable.

But what do you expect me to do, concede a socialised economy at the negotiating table when parts of the broad base I represent have reservations against the concept? That having been said, I think it speaks for us that we do count those among our ranks that do wish for a socialist system. This diversity of views is exactly why the future policy of our country cannot be designed on the drawing board, and as a result, the only place for policy decisions of that order is at the ballot box. All we ask is that the citizens get to decide. That is not unreasonable, if you believe your views are those of the people.
Image
Hosianisch-Demokratisches Verbund - Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Notable previous parties:
Folkepartiet (People's Party) - Kazulia
User avatar
Martinulus
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 11:53 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby RedReaper » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:17 pm

His Excellency, Comrade Xiomar Buschmann, People's President and Marshall of the People's Army;

Other than the gross misunderstanding you've shown Michels, it seems you've reached the same point as us. We don't expect you to concede that we are right. We just expect you to accept that the difference between us is irreconcilable at the moment, and that the options available are either for us both to continue fighting in perpetuity, or for us to come to a peaceful resolution.

Which of these two options do you wish to take?
User avatar
RedReaper
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby colonelvesica » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:07 pm

General Paul Driscol

Allow me to make a point Comrade President. Currently the Kingdom of Hutori has deployed 360,000 ground troops in Hulstria. This is combined with over 240,000 from Kazullia and nigh on 100,000 from Vanuku. The Hutorian ground contingent alone outweighs the entire Volksarmee, and rest assured our three nations are better equipped, organized and trained then any at this table save for our colleagues from Istalia. The only government of Hulstria we recognize is that of the Septembrists. That is the only regime we will continue to recognize, a sentiment I have no doubt Skalm and Wiel are prepared to back up with Bekenial.

We came to these negotiations to bring Hulstria together and we will not humor for even a moment from absolutely anyone the thought of partitioning the nation outside of what areas our respective forces will be occupying and securing for the recognized Hulstrian Government. Under current combat deployment rules Hutori's forces are under orders to begin pulling out of Hulstria when combat operations have ceased and when security against insurgents is achieved. If combat between Hulstria and the so called "People's State" continues we will see the Volksarmee as insurgents against the rightful government of Hulstria and will act accordingly to assist our allies at their request.


Ambassador Wilson

A question for our Istalian colleagues. We were under the impression you recognized the United Crownlands as the legitimate government of Hulstria. Why are you speaking of partitioning the nation at all?
Global RP Team Economist in Chief

Director of the Zardic Institute of International Studies
User avatar
colonelvesica
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:57 pm
Location: Around

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby RedReaper » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:13 pm

His Excellency, Comrade Xiomar Buschmann, People's President and Marshall of the People's Army;

I am interested, General Driscol, as to what gives you the jurisdiction to threaten us in such a manner? The World Congress Resolution 50 speaks nothing of attacking anti-regime forces to ensure that your specific favorites gain control of the country. It speaks solely of ending the Nimitz regime and ensuring peace in the region, an aim to which effect everyone within this negotiation has fought hard to achieve. Any actions against the forces of Hulstria and Gao-Soto, be they Septembrists or Communists, is in violation of the Resolution and I would argue would be seen as an imperialist strike and an attempt at unauthorized regime change. We don't care for which State in the region the Hutori government recognises, we care solely for Peace and reconciliation. Will you help us to achieve this, or will you start another war for your own selfish ends?

And now to all members of this negotiation. What happens after the Nimitz regime is dealt with, what conditions and deals are made, is for the Hulstrian and Gao-Sotan people to decide, not Coalition forces. Anything other than achieving peace is beyond your purview. Anything beyond ending the regime will be regarded as an act of imperialist aggression on a war ravaged and helpless nation. Peace is what is needed above all else. Let the people of Hulstria and Gao-Soto decide their future.
User avatar
RedReaper
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Martinulus » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:37 pm

Geraniengau

Ah, so you do agree the people should decide! Then can we look forward to you participating at the polls inner the basic democratic constitution that is the Basic Law or are these more hollow words?
Image
Hosianisch-Demokratisches Verbund - Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Notable previous parties:
Folkepartiet (People's Party) - Kazulia
User avatar
Martinulus
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 11:53 am

Re: Kien Conference on the Future of Hulstria and Gao-Soto

Postby Axxell » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:26 pm

Ms Bunognini

Ambassador Wilson,
probably you misurestanding my words. We have not at all the intention to leave Hulstria divided. We just wanted be sure that the communists hadn't been simply stamped out from negotiations. However, me and my government finally we have to declares our position, matured especially during the last statements made in this Conference.
We saw a part which offered us brilliant arguments and which lend its hand to the other side which however refused.

Comrade Buschmann, you said one right thing: let the people of Hulstria and Gao-Soto decide their future. We agree, so why don't run into free elections without special privileged parties? We see some Hulstrians and Gao-Showans who supports you Communits, we see some Hulstrians and Gao-Showans who support septembrists, as well as other parties, there are even fans of the previous suprematist ideology, it is sure.
But we see only one party claiming a preminency, preminency based on what? An ideology supported only by a minoritarian part of an entire population? And why this ideology should be imposed to everyone? Because YOU think that it is right? Everyone here thinks that his ideology, position, party is the right side. Also the Septembrists, which however offered an instrument to regulate themself as well as any other political ideology, this instrument doesn't put up on a pedestal their ideology, which we should recognize to be an umbrella denomination for a broad political spectrum.
These rules are objectively fairer then the constitution your proposed, a text where many points can be easily interpreted in... dangerous ways... which is heavily focalized in defend your and only your side by... by any interference. Unaceptable! Any government as well as any ideology are questionable, it is the core of the democracy, and the history largely comproved us that an accomodation, a job and a full bowl cannot satisfy the men. Nimitz approved law to privilege him and his ideology, Nimitz used the vaguely of the laws to enforce persecutions against the opposants.

Now... General Driscol, please, let avoid such... statements. Like I said to Comrade Buschmann, the people of Hulstria and Gao-Soto will decide their future. Let vote them. Let a part for a moment this or that constitution and lets elect a constituent assembly, elections under fair and democratic rules.
My Government sincerilly thinks that the rules offered about the electoral process by the Septembrist text fully satisfy the highest democratic standard which will be demanded for the future political life of this Country.
We can offer other rules, drafted by not Septembrists legal expertises, but I dubt that the result would be too different.

Istalia could also recognize the Septembrists, well... I can say that soon my President will release an official statement to recognize the Septembrists. But... then? The People's State will not desappear. So, let a part the governments and engage you as party under a provisional institutional orders to write together a basic text.
However, Istalia have to admit that we don't think the final result will be too different from the one proposed by the Septembrists. Neutral and unbiased. No democratic nation can recognize to your text the same. We see on one hand a democratic alternative to one where some people believe to be better than other and their idea better than the other ideas, while in the other we see... just an alternative where only who believe to have the right to impose their opinion changed.

We are probably make a tort to the Septembrists, but we want to be as disponible as possible, with everyone. We are offering you a possibility. To not contest elctions under a framework organized by the Septembrists but alongside the septembrists and any other party. but the frameworks, as said, will be very similar.
Maybe it could be also a test for both the texts... and I think that after all your unconstructive statements it is a large concession such a proposal. probably the last one. Let the people decide, but then you must respect their will, whatever you like it or not.
Libertà e Progresso (Liberty and Progress) - Istalia (Active)
User avatar
Axxell
 
Posts: 1220
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:08 am

PreviousNext

Return to Conferences

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest