Particracy Forum

Yeah, I recall the mods ruled that Barnwood couldn't have Vascania. Also, I'm pretty sure that Matthus did the exact same thing with colonies when BTBAM & the republicans took over Alduria, but I don't remember what happened then.

We moved the colonies to Luthori. The colonies belong to the crown, for they answer to the Emperor. Now thenations that claim them are the ones that the Emperor has placed in charge of protecting, but they are pretty much selfrun. The reasonwesay they belong to the crown and not the nation is the exampleof Brazil. When Napoleon attacked and basically made portagual his, the colonies along with the courtmoved from
europe to Brazil. Soit is notreally godmoding nor is it unrealistic,as long as you do it right. From thepreviousmod decision,what I understood was that no player could control a colony, in other words he could not make upa nation and run it himself. What I have proposedis that the Empire rake control, in other words it belongs to everyone in those that are member nations. To make it eays I proposed how we could have them kept upto date and how we could run themby allowing the players to tak turns holding Viceroy position in them, that the Emperor would appoint. The Emperor wouls be controled by the evryone that commented andvoted on his actions. While I am the head of the upkeep of him and the Imperial family,I still do not have complete control of him and nor do I want it.


The point is is that this will effectivly be making each of these states/nations part ofone throne, soitwouldbe impossible for the states to have colonies. So whileit is true that it woudnot be completely fair for those that take over a member state of the Empire, it would be realistic and more changllanging,thus more fun,to anyone that trries to take down the Empire.

OOC: It is godmodding. Napoleon did not win elections in Portugal, he invaded it. If, say, Ikradon woul invade Luthori in RP, ofcourse the colonies could be held by the crown - in RP. But if a party takes over Luthori and wins elections, the colonies belong to the new government of Luthori, if they refuse to RP your idea, as characters and organizations can't own colonies. But a treaty where they would be owned jointly by all members of the Empire would not be against the rules I believe, it is not the first time a colony has been held jointy through treaties. However I see it very unlikely that member states would have any interest in giving up their single-state rule over the colonies to others.

Why is it that people get so butthurt over colonies, when they have absolutely no in-game value and get ignored in most RPs?

OOC: Speaking purely in general of course, it's simply that some people don't like losing. Create a complex system so people can't take your colonies and you've not lost quite as much.

Duke Matthus wrote:From thepreviousmod decision,what I understood was that no player could control a colony, in other words he could not make upa nation and run it himself.

In the rebellion in Talmorias old colonies you claimed you could determine what happened there because it belonged to the Emperor, not Luthori (I'm paraphrasing, obviously). My apologies, but I really don't see how that's any different.

Yes and I had talked to the other party that controls the family with me and was originally for it. However I miss understood what he said and late is where the disagreement came. We had a misunderstanding of the scale at which it was going to be and that I mistook his using of Luthori troops as Colonial troops, which when cleared after talking with him later was fixed. This would solve that issue completely, and spell it out clearly, for at the moment then New Alduria is not Luthori but still Alduira's by the reason some are saying and thus would make the last 200 or 300 years of it being Luthori false.

As for Khaler's point:
The issue is that we are saying that it would not be Luthori, Alduria or Yishelem as seperate nations, they would be "States" in the Terran Empire, in other words the colonies would not be part of Luthori to begin with, so if luthori fell the colonies would still be part of the nation for the nation, Terran Empire, would still exist in Yishelem and Alduria. Now if all fell then the colonies would be up for grabs like the Namviet colonies were when I had Luthori take them from Jeb. No nation was left to claim them, and hell I even gave half of them to Delteria, who Jeb was at the time of the conquest of Namviet, by Jeb, was combinded with. I agree if the home nation is taken then by all means the colonies are theirs for the taking, however because this proposal would combind the nations as states, a part of one Empire, it would techincally be as you say. They would belong to that nation, the Terran Empire and if the whole Empire fell then so would the colonies. Now how the colonies would be broken up would be for the conquerors to decided, all I am suggesting is for sake of RP and for gods sake upkeep,. for I can tell you I may be in Alduria now, but I have done more work on those Colonies than any of the parties in Luthori (ICL is also to credit there, though he has worked more on the wiki of Luthori law and the military) and yet I am currently in Alduria holding together a very weak Empire that is held under treaties that contridict each other.

This would fix all of that and make it simple and quite frankly fair for all to be able to control and at the same time RP the colonies. It is far from Godmodding for Godmodding would mean you get something out of it that is an advantage to you. All this is doing is allowing us to official say and quite frankly run the colonies and the Empire in a much more easier way on all of us.

To compromise with you and prove my point Khalar, for I can see what you are arguing, I suggest we give it a shot of what I am proposing. If it is as you say and if it is not working then the Terran Empire can give them to certain nations that are members. A test period that will show that it is not godmodding, but simply realistic and quite frankly it is fair to those that are working together to share the benefits of their hard work as one. I will not deny your hard work in Yishelem, so why not work together to make the process I started under Jason of combinding the thrones into one throne. Make the Terran Throne make the colonies part of one nation and not all held together under different treaties that make no sense.

We have found an agreement then on colonial matters, as what you are proposing is not against the rules in any way.

That then brings us to the Military part and the Law part.

I am assuming we all find it fine by the lack of debate on it, or have we not been paying attention to it due to the Colony debate.

Also the following nations are excused until Imperial Control is brought back to them. The rightful Imperial parties of those nations may still talk in this, however the following contries due to being in a state of Rebellion will not be able to take part in the formation of this Empire.

-The Impeiral Domain of Mordusia

-The Imperial Viceroyship of Alduria

-Colonies of Impeiral Domain of Mordusia (Still in debate)

Another issue that has come up that does relate to the Military and laws is that of Treaties.

Now in order to avoid ourselves from breaking apart in a war due to different parts of us being members of different alliances, I propose that the Imperial Government have the vote on Treaties, and then the States ratify them. Now this could mean for example that if nation A wnats to join the treaty and gets Nation C to also vote yes to it, thus allowing it to pass, that nation B, who does not want to join, would then have to hold an OOC vote and join.

Now while this is unfair, it is somewhat unrealistic to have it anyother way.

However to compromise, I propose that we say that only military, commerce and major international treaties (such as the IML and Commonwealth Treaties) are all that the Imperial Government can vote on. All the others, would be considered domestic and thus the indiviual nations would be able to decided for themselves whether or not to approve or disapprove.

This itself can be changed by changing the Constituition of the Terran Empire, which we will discuss how it can be done last after it is basically all written.

So this does bring us back to the military and laws with this issue on treaties. It also brings in commerce. So pick one and lets get debating so I can get writing and get this out on the first draft by the end of the week of December 14.