Wire tapping

Propose and review new legislative variables for the game.

Wire tapping

Postby The Mask » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:41 am

Name of the Law/Policy: Government policy on wire tapping.
Law/Policy Category: Civil liberties

Options:

1. The government does not have any policy on wire tapping.
2. It is legal for anyone to commit wire tapping for any reason.
3. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case.
4. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case and it is approved through a court order.
5. All forms of wire tapping are illegal.
6. This matter is left for the local governments to decide upon.

Effects:
1. Decrease in government responsibilities.
2. Significant decrease in civil rights.
3. Decrease in civil rights. Increase in progressivism.
4. Slight decrease in civil rights. Increase in government responsibilities and slight increase in progressivism.
5. Increase in civil rights, conservatism, and government responsibilities.
6. Increase in devolution.

Comments:
This was loosely based on the Anti-Wiretapping Law in the Philippines (http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno4200.htm). It is also inspired by the aftermath of the "Hello Garci" scandal several years ago in the country which was highlighted by a wiretapped recording of the President supposedly ordering the manipulation of votes to win the election. Not sure about the issue with this, but if I'm not mistaken it had problems with filing a case against the President for election fraud due to the legality of the wiretapped recording.
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Re: Wire tapping

Postby Amazeroth » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:33 pm

I don't see what wire tapping has to do with progressivism / conservatism. And if you have the option that it's legal for anyone to tap into the wires, you should have one option that only allows this to the police.
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Re: Wire tapping

Postby The Mask » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:52 am

Amazeroth wrote:I don't see what wire tapping has to do with progressivism / conservatism. And if you have the option that it's legal for anyone to tap into the wires, you should have one option that only allows this to the police.


The way I see it, wire tapping has something to do with morality such that in the conservative side of things, it argues that wire tapping is immoral because it violates an individual's freedom and right to privacy. In the progressive side of things, it can be viewed as moral in the sense that this would be a method in fighting more immoral and more violent crimes and can be seen by some as being for the greater good of everyone.

Anyway, here is my second draft based on your comment:

1. The government does not have any policy on wire tapping.
2. Anyone can commit wire tapping without any restrictions.
3. Only the police and authorized citizens can commit wire tapping as long as a court order is secured.
4. Only the police can commit wire tapping without any restrictions.
5. All forms of wire tapping are illegal.
6. This matter is left for the local governments to decide upon.

1. Decrease in government responsibilities.
2. Significant decrease in civil rights.
3. Slight decrease in civil rights. Increase in progressivism.
4. Significant decrease in civil rights. Increase in government responsibilities and increase in progressivism.
5. Increase in civil rights, conservatism, and government responsibilities.
6. Increase in devolution.
Last edited by The Mask on Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wire tapping

Postby Amazeroth » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:11 am

The Mask wrote:
Amazeroth wrote:I don't see what wire tapping has to do with progressivism / conservatism. And if you have the option that it's legal for anyone to tap into the wires, you should have one option that only allows this to the police.


The way I see it, wire tapping has something to do with morality such that in the conservative side of things, it argues that wire tapping is immoral because it violates an individual's freedom and right to privacy. In the progressive side of things, it can be viewed as moral in the sense that this would be a method in fighting more immoral and more violent crimes and can be seen by some as being for the greater good of everyone.



At least in the context of the game, progressivism an conservatism are as far as I can see only influenced by stuff that is allowed for citizens, and not for things the state can do. But apart from that, I think the whole issue of "morality in wire tapping" is more than sufficiently expressed in an increase/decrease of civil liberties. Furthermore, I don't know a single conservative who is against wire tapping in all cases, and I don't know anybody who might be classified as "progressive" who thinks that we need more wire tapping.
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"Guten Tag, alte Frau", sagte Karl der Große.
"Guten Tag, Karl der Große", sagte die alte Frau.
Solche und ähnliche Geschichten erzählt man sich über die Leutseligkeit Karls des Großen.
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Re: Wire tapping

Postby Aquinas » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:23 am

3. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case.
4. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case and it is approved through a court order.


Perhaps it is the wording, but I'm a little confused by this. Surely the wire tapping has to take place *before* the wire tapping evidence is exhibited in a criminal court case. So how can the wire tapping be illegal before the court case and then legal during it?
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Re: Wire tapping

Postby Amazeroth » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:05 am

Aquinas wrote:
3. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case.
4. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case and it is approved through a court order.


Perhaps it is the wording, but I'm a little confused by this. Surely the wire tapping has to take place *before* the wire tapping evidence is exhibited in a criminal court case. So how can the wire tapping be illegal before the court case and then legal during it?



What is meant that it is only legal if it is used to gather evidence in a criminal case, a criminal case begins before the trial (usually with either police or attorney getting informed that a crime took place).
Eines Tages traf Karl der Große eine alte Frau.
"Guten Tag, alte Frau", sagte Karl der Große.
"Guten Tag, Karl der Große", sagte die alte Frau.
Solche und ähnliche Geschichten erzählt man sich über die Leutseligkeit Karls des Großen.
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Re: Wire tapping

Postby The Mask » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:39 pm

Aquinas wrote:
3. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case.
4. Wire tapping is legal only if used as evidence in a criminal case and it is approved through a court order.


Perhaps it is the wording, but I'm a little confused by this. Surely the wire tapping has to take place *before* the wire tapping evidence is exhibited in a criminal court case. So how can the wire tapping be illegal before the court case and then legal during it?


Amazeroth managed to explain the concept well, so I guess no further explanation is necessary.

Also, I did make revisions to this proposal, so you may want to look into my second draft and see if it is better.
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