3rd General Assembly Session

[MarkWill]

Luthorian Ambassador to the World Congress, Steven Moss:

If the Aldegarian government cannot recognize the Baltusian government, which is voted in by the Baltusian people, then along that same line of thought, I don't see how the Aldegarian government would be willing to recognize the result of a referendum. One would expect to see pro-Shah parties being elected, but that is not the case.

Again, it is necessary for both parties involved to come to the table willing to meet in the middle in order to reach a compromise. The international community does not wish to see an escalation. Does the Aldegarian Ambassador have any other qualms over the proposed points?

[jamescfm]

Payam Khodayari, Aldegarian General Assembly Ambassador:

We would indeed recognise the Baltusian Congress if it were voted for by the people of Baltusia but it is obviously not. Elections in that country are known to be a sham and it is prone to extreme political violence as we have seen on multiple occasions in the past. As you say, we would expect to see pro-Shah parties elected if the people were really voting.

We oppose article one because it is unnecessary foreign intrusion in our national affairs. The Shah has already been proven as the King of Baltusia, no further clarification is required. Obviously, we oppose article two. We oppose article three because it would leave us exposed to an attack from one of Baltusia's allies. We oppose article four because we know Baltusia will, as they have done in the past, commit false flag operations and use that an excuse to deport Aldegarians. We oppose article five because we have no need to communicate with false governments.

Honestly, this is an extremely one-sided and rather shambolic attempt at settlement. Debating this issue has become rather tedious so we will not continue until the expulsion has been halted, victims compensated and the Shah officially recognised.

[MarkWill]

Luthorian Ambassador to the World Congress, Steven Moss:

Forgive me if some of my previous statements have made it appear as if I had some inherent anti-Aldegar bias. That is not the case. Now, I wish only to see that this is no longer an issue.

As for your sources, it appears they are dated from approximately 400-500 years ago. I think it is quite clear that if no other, more recent, sources could be pulled, then the electoral process in Baltusia is running rather smoothly. According to the results of the last Baltusian election, which took place in June 4145, there were 74,769,672 eligible voters at the time and 62,001,712 votes were cast, putting turnout at 82.92%. That is much more representative than Aldegar, which had 74,755,037 eligible voters in June 4146 but only saw 11,951,777 votes cast, putting turnout at 15.99%. Now, I'm not aware of the repute and validity of the various polls being thrown around in this chamber, but it's clear that the vast majority of Baltusian voters vote and participate in the political process. If most of the parties in the Congress are opposed to recognizing the Shah, or even instituting a monarchy, then that simply reflects the representative will of the people.

The use of third-party and international observers is to discern only the facts and identify what exactly is going on in both nations. Their actions would only be limited to what is charged here. Would putting them under the Aldegarian government's oversight make it more acceptable? As for article 2, if a referendum were to take place, and if the Baltusian people voted to reject the Shah's claim, would that settle the matter and be cause to drop the claim to the Baltusian throne? Article 3, in case it was not clear, was to simply bring both Aldegar and Baltusia together in order for each to commit to a peaceful resolution and to avoid the use of military force. It is a memorandum of understanding, not a formal treaty or any such agreement that entails legal obligations. It is, rather, a step for each nation to show they can act in good faith. To refrain from signing such a statement would mean peace is not a desired outcome, and that would not be a favorable outcome for all parties involved. As for article 4, would the presence and oversight of independent, third-party observers not change the Aldegarian government's mind about the authenticity of Baltusia's deportation process? Does the Aldegarian government not trust the World Congress, or for that matter, any random nation, to carry out its moral duty in ensuring human rights are being respected in Baltusia? Moreover, if indeed Baltusia were not to commit false flag operations, is the Aldegarian government fine with the deportation of known terrorists, regardless of nationality? As for article 5, what reason is there, other than the democratically-elected Baltusian government does not recognize the Shah's claim, to refuse to reopen a simple diplomatic line of communication?

Allow me to ask frankly: is Aldegar interested in compromise?

[jamescfm]

Payam Khodayari, Aldegarian General Assembly Ambassador:

No.

[MarkWill]

*Steven Moss rises from his seat, eyes twitching, and utters something about a coffee break while walking dazed out the door.*

[stuntmonkey]

Otto Vanderijk Blick, Baltusian Ambassador to the General Assembly

Ambassador Moss,

Again, thank you for your efforts in trying to reach a compromise. In terms of a referendum, I would draw your attention to a vote that was carried out at the start of this sorry debacle:

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=497646


You will note, the Patriotic Party leader - now President Ralph Mason - asked all parties to vote on whether they wanted a hereditary head of state - i.e. the Shah. You will see that all parties voted NO! I think this speaks for itself.

In terms of Article 5 of our Sanctions bill, brought in due to the threat of conflict, and namely asking all Aldegarian nationals to leave, we have now completed the process - well ahead of time and with very little disruption. However, if you read the following news article you will see that our Foreign Secretary has set out plans to allow many Aldegarians back, if they so wish, under a skills-based immigration system.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=187&start=250

With that said, we are open to all 5 points of you agreement plan, although given what is said above, point 4 may now be somewhat redundant. However, please note throughout this process we have openly welcomed inspectors to come and look at the process in action.

[stuntmonkey]

Otto Vanderijk Blick, Baltusian Ambassador to the World Congress General Assembly

One other thing if I may, Ambassador Moss,

We have just received word of the latest report in the Aldegar newspaper, The Aldegar Daily.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1852&start=130

It once again demonstrates the threat we feel is posed by the NDU and its military arm. Talk of "retribution against the Baltusian enemy" and command structure counterstrikes is certainly not helpful and just adds fuel to the fire.

As for claims of discovering millions of crowns in currency and top secret documents at the site of our former embassy, this is pure hyperbole.

All sensitive documents were either shredded or taken back to Baltusia when our consulate team was expelled and, if any wealth was found, it was certainly only a few notes and spare change. However, we would say that all official documents however non sensitive in nature are the property of our government and should be returned to Baltusia. We believe the NDU's co-operation in this matter would be the first step to bridging the animosity that has developed. We ask them to consider this gesture.

[Axxell]

Casistro Malga, Ambassador of Istalian Republic to the World Congress

I would ask to the Kalistanian delegation one thing: since when declared foreign citizens as undesiderable has become a crime against humanity? How you dare compare a decision that block the access to a nation for foreign citizens to a decision that hits internal minorities with national citizenships as the actions of the Beiteynu's Government?

As specified in the Sanctions upon Aldegar resolution, the article 5 indicate Aldegarian CITIZENS as undesiderable within their borders and ask to them to leave the nation. It's the right of all nation decide to cancel and withdraw visas to foreign citizens, also Beiteynu make the same against some istalian and kalistanian citizens, but no one consider this a human violation comparable with the slave policy reintroduction or with the segregation policies in force in Beiteynu.
There are many nations in this world that do not recognize visas to foreign citizens, especially if they come, for example, from developing nations. And now you dare indicate Baltusia as a human rights violator because they decided that the aldegarian citizens are become undesiderable in front of the menace of a war? it's also right of baltusian government search the declared illegal immigrants and then retourn them in their nations.
The Shah of Aldegar declared that it was ready also for a war and a major political forces in Aldegar supported this position and attempt to convince the local parliament to approve it and also in this moment a militia linked to this political force are conducting operation really hostile but also really strange, but on this thing i'll return below.
However my nation want invite Baltusia and Valruzia to not proceed with any action that could lead to an armed conflict, but the Istalian position is still close to some recent declaration of the Luthorian delegation about the respect of the will of the people that democratically expressed their position.

Until now, only Baltusia showed info and datas about this situation, only Baltusia showed its disponibility (and also invited them) to receive foreign delegations to conduct investigation about this situation.
The Baltusian Parliament showed more and more times its opposition to recognizing Shannam as King of Baltusia and the high rates of partecipation to the recent elections showed also how the citizens of Baltusia are against the claims of the Shah of Aldegar, and one of the most strong prof is this the vote launched by a baltusian party.

And about it I would ask one think to the members of this Assembly: why talked you about genealogical researchs and investigations? What are dinastic claims facing the will democratically expressed from the people of a nation? The same Luthorian delegation asked to the Aldegarian delegation to not claims for their monarch the title of Prince of Luthori. The Shah IN Aldegar have the right to use all the titles that he want and all the Aldegarians and thier representative assembly have the right to call their monarch with all the titles they want.
But no dinastic or genealogical right can overcome a will democratically expressed by a people of a nation. What is it an Official Position? Something that could be inherited as a car, a house or a loan? The fathers of the fathers of the fathers of the fathers etc... etc... of Shannam was monarchs in that nation or that other nation? Well... it is the past! Now, democratically elected representatives and officials govern and lead these nations. If they want recognize Shannam as their HoS, ok! No one will protest for this decision, a decision democratically expressed by a parliament and a people.
But if a parliament and the people that elected that parliament express their opposition, as is the case of Baltusia (because Aldegar never showed us the "millions of Baltusian that wanted Shannam as they ruler"), Shannam shall respect it, Aldegar shall respect it.
And I'm surprised that someone here demanded genealogical researchs to confirm the dynistic claims of Shannam!

Aldegar do not want recognize Baltusia? Well, ok! Do not recognize it! Do not have relations with it! Do not trade with it! Do not accept baltusian citizens in your borders! Let's Aldegar make what it want inside their borders, because there are all the rest of the world that recognize Baltusia as a sovereign nation that have all the right to protect their institutions and their borders, because it's not up to Aldegar or Shannam if a nation is recognized or not, but depend by an international general consensus and it's clear us all the nation that intervened in this debate are recognizing Baltusia as an indipendent nation, regardless of the Aldegar choises to recognize or not it!

Finally, to returning on the aldegarian militia actions, I have a dubt to express: I was thinking about the "stupidity" of the baltusian diplomatic delegation in Aldegar! If the Baltusian Embassy really hid that money, the baltusian delegation would withdraw the location without bringing with him the money? And they really forgot also the most important documents?
And here all the nation know how sensible documents are the first that shall to be bring inside the national borders or that shall be destroyed. The baltusian diplomatic delegation in Aldegar are really formed by "idiots"? I don't think my dear collegues and it is for this and also for the long time resistant behavior and the reticence of the Aldegarian government to show us any profs about their allegations against Baltusia that my nation will be very suspicious of any following statement about this "research" in the former baltusian embassy.

First to end my intervention, I would invite the collegue of Zardugal to reconsider the accuse about human rights violation against Baltusia that asked to foreign citizens, aldegarian citizens, facing the risk of an armed conflict, to leave their borders and that, until now, no one showed us the profs of extermination or other human violations against the Aldegarian citizens, not Baltusian citizens with aldegarian origins.
And, given the presence of the Zardugal's and Kazulian's missions inside the borders of Baltusia, we want request also profs about the use of torture in Baltusia by the local government, because this "prof" do not showed nothing about torture, as Kalistan delegation said previously with its pretentious and pompous statement: "we know you have tortured".

Thank you.

[jamescfm]

Eleanora Montreal, Kalistani Ambassador to the Security Council rises to speak:

I really do not see what is so difficult to understand about the Kalistani position. We do not accept the Shah's claim to govern Aldegar but we accept the right of Aldegar to claim it. We oppose in the strongest possible way the Baltusian policy of forced mass expulsion based on race. It is ethnic cleansing. Removing all of the people of a certain ethnicity (in this case Aldegarian) from your country is not a justifiable policy. The crass and appalling manner in which you refer to Aldegarians as 'undesirable' should tell Terra everything it needs to know about Istalia's position.

Our own position remains that as long as fundamental human rights are not being infringed, Kalistan does not care what a nation does within its border. Where we are aware of such infringements, we will condemn them and seek to change them however is reasonably possible. We are not aware of any such cases in Aldegar. We are aware of a serious case in Baltusia.

[Axxell]

Casistro Malga, Ambassador of Istalian Republic to the World Congress

Baltusian Government considered Aldegarian citizens as a danger for its national security and the Baltusian government invited them to leave the nation. And had give them 3 years to do it with their legs. After this period, considered as illigal immigrates, they was sent in center for identification and waiting for the expulsion. They suffered of torture or other human violations? Kazulian and Zardugal's missions have to establish this, but given the disponibility of the Baltusian government, my delegation thinks that Kazulia or Zardugal will not able to show us the terrible violations of which Kalistan accused Baltusia. But if they bring here some profs of violation, Istalia will be immediatly to the side of Kalistan in blaming Baltusia, but we are sure that this scene never will produce.

Ethnic cleaning... I demand to myself if the Kalistanian delegation learned something by the dossier on Beiteynu showed us by the General Secretary some years ago. And if they understand what is it really an Ethnic cleaning.
Withdrawn of the authorization of the visas for foreign citizens is comparable with what we hear about the actions perpetrued by the Beiteynu's Government? Really do you consider center to wait the expulsion comparable as segregation or concentration camps? Really?
If also in my nation would born suspect about some foreign citizens that come from a precisely nation, why my Government cannot take the necessary measures to defend our nation and my fellow citizens? I can always ask to all the not nationals that are in my nation to leave it, from one nation as well as from more nations.
It's immigration policy, it's a security measures for the national safe. Or Kalistan want impose to other nation who can enter or can stay inside the boards of other nations? Do you really consider this violation as a crime against the human rights?

Realpolitik my dear collegues! My predecessor already say to you to retourn among the other mortals and leave the fantasy world of the ideas. When we will have profs of exterminations, mass tortures, segregation of minorities, etc... we will at your side in blaming other nations. But here... I'm sorry to say it, we are facing the usual excess of idealism and the total lack of contact with reality of the Kalistan Government which will only make lose more time to this organization. Bring us the profs and then dare you to accuse other nation of something. Baltusia flooded this body of profs, baltusia are cooperating since the start of this situation and in this moment are cooperating with Zardugal and Kazulia. If the latters will bring us profs of human violations, as said, then we will ready to talk about it.
In this moment the question is only one: Aldegar and its Shah have to maintain inside their boards its claim if the will of the people of other nation declared its opposition to it!
Why Kalistan have to search if the Shannam's claim are real. Also if they are real? What have to do the Baltusian Parliament and the Baltusian People? As already stated: almost 100 millions of people have to accept the claim of an individual as if their nation is someone that could be inherited as an house without hear the will of its inhabitants? We really are give space to this possibility?

Shannam could be also the descendant of all the oldest royal families of all the nations of the world, but without the will of the peoples and their representative body, democratically elected, all these claims are nothing than the ravings of an old man in a turban a little too exalted."