Feedback: Natural Resources (including Oil and Gas)

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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby Robert F. Kennedy » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:10 pm

Honestly,
Since I lack experience in Yingdala, I will say that it fit me for now, but my primarily concernant is that many nations are just too dépendent on the rest of the world for their ressources, and in a case of a crisis, like in RL Russia vs. Ukraine, I think this is gonna be a disadvantage for the nation.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby Auditorii » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:23 pm

Robert F. Kennedy wrote:Honestly,
Since I lack experience in Yingdala, I will say that it fit me for now, but my primarily concernant is that many nations are just too dépendent on the rest of the world for their ressources, and in a case of a crisis, like in RL Russia vs. Ukraine, I think this is gonna be a disadvantage for the nation.


The concept that every nation is self-sufficient is incredibly poisonous to RP and something like this would drive players to have to contend with the realities of international affairs.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby Robert F. Kennedy » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:29 pm

Auditorii wrote:
Robert F. Kennedy wrote:Honestly,
Since I lack experience in Yingdala, I will say that it fit me for now, but my primarily concernant is that many nations are just too dépendent on the rest of the world for their ressources, and in a case of a crisis, like in RL Russia vs. Ukraine, I think this is gonna be a disadvantage for the nation.


The concept that every nation is self-sufficient is incredibly poisonous to RP and something like this would drive players to have to contend with the realities of international affairs.


Yes, but, I take the example of Yingdala, I have nothing except uranium, and since uranium will be controlled by moderation via the dynamic rankings, and I need to raise in the rankings for that, but with what I am gonna kickstart my energy Industry?
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby Auditorii » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:44 pm

Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
Auditorii wrote:
Robert F. Kennedy wrote:Honestly,
Since I lack experience in Yingdala, I will say that it fit me for now, but my primarily concernant is that many nations are just too dépendent on the rest of the world for their ressources, and in a case of a crisis, like in RL Russia vs. Ukraine, I think this is gonna be a disadvantage for the nation.


The concept that every nation is self-sufficient is incredibly poisonous to RP and something like this would drive players to have to contend with the realities of international affairs.


Yes, but, I take the example of Yingdala, I have nothing except uranium, and since uranium will be controlled by moderation via the dynamic rankings, and I need to raise in the rankings for that, but with what I am gonna kickstart my energy Industry?


Helium, Iron, Uranium.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "I have nothing." Seldom countries around the world have some or any natural resources within their borders and even then, if we take a nation in real-life such as China, they import a significant amount of raw materials to produce things, the natural resources they do have tend to be kept in country for specific things.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby TRA » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:02 pm

I agree with this and especially with Aud's predicament on the initiative's context and why it was created.

Isolationism is a fungus in PT, because it's done the wrong way: like a nation can survive by itself in a world. You can RP isolationist just fine, but do it with other players in a multiplayer game. Tools like this help properly RP isolationist in an international arena and level the field for international RP players.

IMHO creating an opportunity for fantastic RP. We keep forgetting PT is mainly politics and diplomatics. You can go to war with your major coal exporter, but it should be clear you can't just dig up the missing coal to power your economy. (edit: Aud said something along these lines to me on Dis)

Again, as Aud said, for a dwindling community that survives by making great RP on the fundamentals of a game.

It's exactly along the lines I've started the whole intelligence RP I've been doing (I've even seen some posts lately on intelligence stuff by others, that was cool). Its whole premise is not to make my nation have everything and solve everything and RP everything outside the international arena of other players. Sure, I've got a master plan, sure, but the idea is to empower other players and their national RPs to make that happen. This is a world, you can't have everything.

Saw the list, didn't even bother with what Beiteynu has, cause that's not the point.

My thoughts:

1. Go for it in general.
2. Adjust based on the RP of other players, yes, but not in the "I have everything" mode.
3. You should make it a little robust. Ex. a war destroying your coal mines should decrease your ranking until its RPed back up. Like the military/economy rankings. It's not always about the organic decrease of the resources.
4. Possibly use RL examples to decrease the randomness? It's been done so far in RP. I realise though that might create headaches, it's the 5200s now.

Hopefully I'll be able to help on my part by showcasing these great ideas on a good UI info hub.

So it's easier to apply them to practice as well by players.
Last edited by TRA on Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby TRA » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:04 pm

PS: Loved the "saltiness" in the replies. Missed it. It also proves PT still has a passionate beating heart, even if you disagreed. You care about this crazy game that beats NationStates any day of the week on its possibilities. You liked Aud's idea even if you disagreed with X, or Y, or Z.

Cause we all realise it adds another vertical that we can use for more politically simulated RP with other players, the thing we all stick around for.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby Autokrator15 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:56 pm

Auditorii wrote:Updated the lists with three colors: Green (Indicating Tier III: high, near infinite reserves (for PT standards) and the ability to market them internationally), Yellow (Indicating Tier II: moderate reserves and the ability to market them regionally and some ability to market them internationally) and finally Red (Indicating Tier I: low reserves with the ability to market them locally and perhaps regionally).

In addition, in reference to comments made by Rogue for North Dovani and Doc by Kalistan, I've tweaked their resources generally replacing what they had gotten randomly generated with their proscribed, RP-related resources. You can review the list.


Great! Saridan btw is mentioned twice in the Uranium one.


My thoughts:

1. Go for it in general.
2. Adjust based on the RP of other players, yes, but not in the "I have everything" mode.
3. You should make it a little robust. Ex. a war destroying your coal mines should decrease your ranking until its RPed back up. Like the military/economy rankings. It's not always about the organic decrease of the resources.
4. Possibly use RL examples to decrease the randomness? It's been done so far in RP. I realise though that might create headaches, it's the 5200s now.


I like this, these should be a difference between production capacity and resource availability.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby ChitinKal » Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:26 am

After having read through this chat and thought it over, I have mixed feelings. I feel it would be better, especially with a much smaller active RP base, to have LESS restriction on RP and give more trust to the seasoned veterans currently playing. I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to codify these values, as it would enforce more realistic RP and incentivize players to be more active in cooperative and international RP, but I haven't really seen lately (and tbh, I have been busy irl and tuned out of the game, so I have likely missed quite a bit) anyone abusing the lax restrictions, so it feels kinda like a non-issue to me. I've personally RPed a very mineral-rich state in Liore, though I've tried my best to keep it as "realistic" as possible and not claim every resource under the sun. Maybe keep it to only a select few "strategic" or ultra rare/valuable minerals, similar to what is done with oil and natural gas? Also not really a big fan of the random placement, though I do understand we'll be hearing appeals/trades (and not to mention, it would be a PAIN to sift through thousands of years of RP or to simulate the geologic history of Terra).

Ultimately, my feelings are mixed but not strong in either direction, so I'd be fine with whatever decision the player-base makes.

If we keep the list as-is, I'd like to argue that Liore's chromium and uranium sources be swapped for strong REEs and moderate lithium. I have heavily RPed Liore as a producer and exporter of REEs and, to a much lesser extent, lithium. The diamond and copper sources I'm ok with, I've RPed them in the past iirc, but I don't believe I have with chromium and uranium. We've also extracted a bit of cobalt, but it doesn't look like its on the list (keep it off, don't mess with my cobalt!).
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby TRA » Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:53 am

Looks like Beiteynu has 2 reds (Copper and Diamonds) and 1 green (silver). As I'm contemplating on doing something over the course of the 54th century - with the help of other nations/contractors as there's almost 0 RP on natural resources in Beiteynu, any chance we could consider 1 of the reds as a yellow?

To have a red, yellow and green basically for balance.
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Re: Feedback: Natural Resources

Postby Auditorii » Tue May 16, 2023 9:59 pm

TRA wrote:Looks like Beiteynu has 2 reds (Copper and Diamonds) and 1 green (silver). As I'm contemplating on doing something over the course of the 54th century - with the help of other nations/contractors as there's almost 0 RP on natural resources in Beiteynu, any chance we could consider 1 of the reds as a yellow?

To have a red, yellow and green basically for balance.


I believe, as per our discussion sometime ago, you wished to have diamonds moved up? I'd be willing to move it up towards yellow.

In addition, baring specific requests for trades, I will be formalizing this at the end of the month.
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