Martinulus wrote:As far as I'm aware, the SPC doesn't have that kind of policy, but given the fact that we have in the past noted our strong disapproval of the TPC's "Pantheon" of pagan gods-cum-saints, and condemned it has heretical, any agreement to letting a potential autocephalous Kalistani Patriarchal Church within the (Selucian) Church venerate pagan gods as saints would depend on how openly it is done. The very definition of a saint is that of a deceased person of Hosian faith who is in heaven, if I am correct. Now as we know there are IRL ideas on how certain saints and pagan gods corresponded, I think we can be flexible.
Therefore, for us to agree to this there need to be a few things taken into account to make sure our opposition to the TPC still makes sense:
- that these pagan gods were made into purported human saints, and not into spirits/angels/other supernatural beings as the TPC does. An additional reason for this is that any Kalistani Patriarchal Church would have originated from the Holy Apostolic Hosian Church of Terra, the common origin of all Western Patriarchal denominations, which would probably have recognised (as its RL equivalent did in Ireland) that converting pagan gods into saints somehow could come in handy, but who during the middle ages would most likely have wanted to impose a certain "Hosian-ness" on them, thus making them more explicitly human.
- that the saints form no special part of the doctrine of the church, as in the TPC (which states the Pantheon is the way God communes with the world, if I am correct)
- that the saints may be peculiar to the Kalistani Church, but that they are in no way pre-eminent over the other Hosian saints (unlike the TPC, which reveres their Pantheon over all Hosian saints)
That is negotiable, because I might not see everything in the right way.
1) I think you're confusing the RW protestant and catholic definition of saint. For example, St. Michael the Archangel is both an angel and a saint in Catholic teaching, and I'm assuming would be so in the Salucian Church.
That being said, the pagan saints (as I'm just going to call them from here on out, as it's easier than typing out an explanation each time) are perhaps a little fuzzier, not necessarily going through a new "backstory" though if challenged, theologians would consider them human in the intervening time, though this would not necessarily be a top concern.
It's more like this:
Polytheistic Kalistani: Kieteaux is the god of the hunt in eastern Klupticana who also protects the cities from creatures of the swamp.
Patriarchal Kalistani: St. Kieteaux was a great hunter, and he's a patron saint of hunters. We pray to him to protect cities from creatures of the swamp.
In other words, the focus is more on the current aspect of the saint, not their backstory.
2) There is no special doctrine that makes them different from other saints.
3) THey are not pre-eminent over other saints. They are considered the same, no more, no less. Now, some are more or less popular with the people, but that is the same with any saint. They do not expect others outside of Kalistan to recognize the same saints either. (THe consider it an internal matter to each Church.) Also I might have said this before, but I'm not sure. The KPC is oddly insular (for a Kalistani institution) they do not believe in preaching outside their borders, as they feel they should not until all their work is done in Kalistan.
