Hosianism Development Project

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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Doc » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:37 am

If I may add, since I am working on developing the PT version of Quakerism now (and am a Quaker IRL) I would ask that we separate the Brethren and other more universalist types of religions from the "luthoran" category, which I assume is the PT equivalent of protestantism.

I say this because I know that some Quakers actually are Christians, but they are Quakers because they are Christians, and not the other way around (if that makes sense). Most Quakers in FGC, for example, are non-trinitarian, and large segments of the Quakers, especially in the US, on the liberal side of the religion, can best be described as "agnostic". In fact, George Fox himself is quoted as saying "The Truth is more holy than the Book is to me." Having grown up a Missouri Synod Lutheran, and becoming a convinced Friend in my 30's, I would say that the two faiths are as different as night and day... One of the biggest debates I have ever heard in my own Meeting was whether or not to meet at the Methodist church. There was no objection to Methodism- the objection was that people didn't want to meet in a room with a HUGE Cross in it...

And to add to that, many UU people find association with Christianity to be marginally offensive, at best. Most liberal Quakers might be tempted to describe themselves as religious Unitarians. :) There is an ease of travel between the two, which doesn't exist between Quakers and mainline or fundamentalist Protestant sects...

So I would hope that work done on Hosianism would also include a tangentially affiliated "Other/Non-Protestant" category for the weird groups that outsiders would be tempted to lump into Hosianism or Luthoranism, but in fact and in practice really are not.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Polites » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:56 am

How about "Non-Dogmatic" as a distinct category within Hosianism?
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Doc » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:18 pm

I think "Non Dogmatic" this might be a decent compromise, or maybe "Universalist" as a subcategory. I cannot deny of course that early Quakers were most definitely Christians, and conservative Friends are still Christians, but I think universalist is a good description for Liberal Friends, and would also include the quivalent (is there one?) of the UU.

If there is no PT UUs, non-dogmatic would be just fine. At any rate, the PT Protestant is not appropriate.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Martinulus » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:56 am

A few words on my methodology and the imaginary background of the 4 Annunciations, which I am looking to complete first. Basically, what I'm doing is writing them in "chronological order", adding in important cross-references as I flesh out the narrative to make the differences between the 4 Annunciants (and in particular the 3 synoptical Annunciations, which after all tell the same story) visible. This is already visible in the document for the Great Commission and Last Teaching narrative, which occurs right before the Hiding and is in all three the synoptical Annunciations.

Basically, the four Annunciants mirror their real-life counterparts in terms of style, significance and cross-references, with adjustments made for the people the Particracy versions are ascribed to. Here follow descriptions with excerpts of the Last Teaching narrative to illustrate:
- Julius is equivalent to Mark. As with the RL counterpart, Julius's account is the oldest of the four and the most matter-of-factly presented. Unlike the other 2 synoptical Annunciants, Julius contains no infancy narrative and also no mention of Elijah's priesthood as a young man. It starts with Elijah's baptism. Julius is a major point of reference for the other accounts, which all embellish certain passages and add certain unique materials to them. As with Mark, Julius isn't quite as concerned with prophecy as the others - because he is either Selucian, Cildanian or a mix between one of those two and Yeudi.

“I return to Him who sent me, the Father.
Go forth now, let all peoples live and hear My Annunciation;
and baptise them all in the name of God and Spirit.”
He blessed them, then He was hid from view,
And they saw Him no more.


- Theodore is our Matthew. Again, as with the counterpart, Theodore is based on Julius and source material unique to itself, mostly construed to be a collection of sayings and sermons. The most Yeudi of the three synoptical Annunciations, Theodore largely focuses on Elijah as a teacher and as a messianic figure. The body consists largely of several long sermons by Elijah. Though traditionally attributed to the Apostle Theodore, it is widely held to have been authored by a Yeudi Hosian because of this. It shares some of its themes and sources with Thomas but of the two, Theodore is the more focused on the teachings of Hosianism.

"And it came to pass that He told them that His time had come.
And the Faithful became saddened. Michael asked of Him: “Master,
What shall we do once Thou hast gone? Teach us one last time.”
And the Lord smiled upon them and after laying His hands on each of them
did he step onto a rock, and say unto them:
“This I shall teach you one more time: I have brought you good tidings,
That you and many may be saved through my love and return to God.
Now I return to Him who sent me, Almighty Father to us all,
And commit unto you my flock here on Earth to watch for my return.
Go ye forth then, that you and all peoples may live and hear My Annunciation;
and baptise them all in the name of God and Spirit
And despair not, for I shall be with thee though I am in Hiding, now and unto the end of days.”
And a glorious cloud descended from heaven, and rested upon Him there at that place.
For a moment then, they saw His glory and the glory of God,
And then He was not in the cloud, but yet they felt His presence,
And they saw Him no more."


- Thomas is Luke, but not quite because the authorship is slightly different. As some might recall, it is widely assumed the author of Luke was a physician, accounting for the large number of healing narratives in that particular Gospel. Thomas is a Priest - furthermore, he is also the second great apostle after Michael and therefore many of the great epistles are also attributed to him. The Annunciation according to Thomas is therefore often regarded as containing more miracles but also more calls to action and prayer than the others. This is clearly visible in the Last Teaching Narrative, which ends (moving into the Acts of the Hosioi, which as with its parallel is the Second Book of Thomas). It also contains the most elaborate (and therefore standard) version of the Hosian Paternoster (which I have yet to get to grips with).

“Go ye forth then, that you and all peoples may live and hear My Annunciation;
and baptise them all in the name of God and Spirit
With peace I leave you now; and my peace I give you.”
And He blessed them, and lo! a glorious cloud obscured Him from view.
And He went from them thus, and they saw Him no more.
But strengthened in their faith, they returned to Yishelem with joy,
and praised God to all they met.


It is also unique among the Annunciations in that its author refers to himself in first person a few times, predominantly in its First Supper narrative (which has led to its identification with Thomas but which later scholars speculate is the result of a pseudonymic identification with Thomas or basis in an earlier proto-Annunciation authored by Thomas). This is not consistent throughout the text as sometimes Thomas is referred to in third person.

And I, being faithful, saw the Lord and knew Him,
And I believed, and I have written down this testimony,
And it is true, and I have so written in order that you may believe.


- Joseph is John, and therefore, totally unrelated to the other three. His Annunciation differs in style, Pneumatological content and message from the other three. Elijah is far more determined in his self-sacrifice than in the synoptic Annunciations and he is presented far more as a divine king and high priest. The text contains far more symbolism that at first sight may seem to be irreconcilable to the synopticals, such as for example the description of the return from exile and the Hiding as occurring at the same time and the arrival of the Light of God between the two, which differs starkly from the synoptical order (which is Exile, Hiding, Light of God). The only bit of Joseph that has been written so far is its opening, which looks to evoke "In the Beginning was the Word"

The Spirit was in the beginning, when God created Heaven and Earth.
And the Spirit was Light and Word and Life, and the Spirit was God.
And the Light of God and Spirit shone in the darkness, revealing and creating,
And never was the darkness able to prevail upon the Light.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Zanz » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:33 pm

This is very cool - I actually just finished a read through of the New Testament for the first time in real life, so it's pretty neat to read your descriptions of each of the four RL authors, too.

I love when Particracy inspires major work like this - I should get back to work on the History of the Jelbic Peoples, soon.

Keep up the good work.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Martinulus » Mon May 29, 2017 2:49 pm

Just to keep track of the changes - I updated the wiki to add names for the remaining Disciples who didn't have them.

I'm also working on a definitive liturgy for the Aurorian Rite of Mass, drawing heavily on the real-life Novus Ordo (it's very hard to imagine a rite like this without borrowing it). I'm not done with the text yet but I'll create a wiki page outlining the major elements for those interested.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Martinulus » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:37 pm

I present to you... the Ordo Missae of the Missale Aurorianum: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_d6Y ... GMzb1FwSk0

It's as of yet incomplete and it will probably get some revisions (I might revise the Gloria to make it more unique using some of the RL New Testament canticles from the Liturgy of the Hours), but it gives the gist of it.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby SelucianCrusader » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:28 pm

Martinulus wrote:I present to you... the Ordo Missae of the Missale Aurorianum: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_d6Y ... GMzb1FwSk0

It's as of yet incomplete and it will probably get some revisions (I might revise the Gloria to make it more unique using some of the RL New Testament canticles from the Liturgy of the Hours), but it gives the gist of it.

:o

Impressive work, Martinulus!

Just a quick question, how does the transubstantiation work in this case? When they say "Reveal Yourself, Our Saviour in Hiding," what does this mean? Is Eli revealing himself through the bread and wine or do they expect that this could well happen physically/spiritually as well, sort of like like in Pentecostal churches? (btw, regarding that: in your opinion, should there be room for a "Charismic renewal" in the APC like the Charismatic renewal in the modern day Catholic Church?)
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Auditorii » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:51 pm

Martinulus wrote:I present to you... the Ordo Missae of the Missale Aurorianum: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_d6Y ... GMzb1FwSk0

It's as of yet incomplete and it will probably get some revisions (I might revise the Gloria to make it more unique using some of the RL New Testament canticles from the Liturgy of the Hours), but it gives the gist of it.


Wow. That's hella impressive.
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Re: Hosianism Development Project

Postby Martinulus » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:55 pm

SelucianCrusader wrote:
Martinulus wrote:I present to you... the Ordo Missae of the Missale Aurorianum: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_d6Y ... GMzb1FwSk0

It's as of yet incomplete and it will probably get some revisions (I might revise the Gloria to make it more unique using some of the RL New Testament canticles from the Liturgy of the Hours), but it gives the gist of it.

:o

Impressive work, Martinulus!

Just a quick question, how does the transubstantiation work in this case? When they say "Reveal Yourself, Our Saviour in Hiding," what does this mean? Is Eli revealing himself through the bread and wine or do they expect that this could well happen physically/spiritually as well, sort of like like in Pentecostal churches? (btw, regarding that: in your opinion, should there be room for a "Charismic renewal" in the APC like the Charismatic renewal in the modern day Catholic Church?)

I'll deal with the questions one by one:
- Actually, I just updated the wiki to say that unlike in RL, the mainstream view on Terra is consubstantiation. There's a good reason for this: the story of Eliyahu's redeeming suffering is way less corporal, and his sacrifice is effectively portrayed as "a broken Spirit" rather than the sacrificial lamb of God. The Sacrifice, therefore, is spiritual - since it's his spiritual essence being under the signs of bread and wine, rather than a form of bodily presence, consubstantiation (alongside the essence of bread and wine He is present) seemed to make more sense. Also because it is literal "revelation" - a bit of God is Revealed in the bread and wine. It is, however, a permanent presence.
- The acclamation "Reveal Yourself, Our Saviour in Hiding" is equivalent to "Come, Lord Jesus". It is a prayer for the end of the Occultation, and therefore for the Second Coming. The Gratitudinal Theology of the Patriarchal Churches is such that it allows communion with Eliyahu through the veil of the Hiding (that is why it is called the Holy Revelation) - this prayer is not actually about that, it is rather Particracy's version of "Save us, oh Saviour of the World, for by your cross and resurrection, you have set us free."
- The Charismic Renewal question is an interesting one. Since Charismic Renewal focuses on the Holy Spirit, and this is shoved under Eliyahu or absorbed into the instrument of God that is the Light of God, I'm not sure how much room there can be, but I think where there's a will, there's a way. Hosianism is deliberately designed to be able to do everything Christianity can, it'd be odd if that weren't possible here.
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