I had a dream..

[Captain-Socialist]

If only you guys put this much energy into RP.

[Martinulus]

The moderators are and should be neutral, and people are getting too worked up over mere party organisations. I restored Hulstria. Naturally, I had IML backing. But I didn't do it because I brgrudge anyone anything, least of all new players.

I think nations should evolve. All this raiding is revolting. I agree with Zanz.

[Afrocentric]

I don't know what you assholes get out of nation raiding, but you need to fucking stop. Get off your high horse and come back down to Earth and what's worse is that some of the people doing it are doing it to spite the person there all because you don't agree with what he/she stands for and/or maybe because they said something to you that pissed you off. Really? Is that why you're upset because X called you an "egotistical idiot who enjoys drinking the blood of kittens" so naturally you're going to invade A in order to spite X so you can make yourself feel much better. Not only is your logic flawed, it's one of the problems with the game today.

How would you like it if I came to your house and raided it? Would you like it if I took your Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Xbox, laptop and 22 year old sister (who had plastic surgery to enhance certain features) and then said, "Sorry, their mine now. I suggest you get the hell out, and deal with it." Would you like that? No you wouldn't, so don't go around raiding other nations, especially if it's to spite another person and SC, sorry I have to say this, but you are the biggest douche bag to ever play this game. What you did Bean in Hulstria was totally uncalled for and I find it amazing that people still want to play with you.

Why don't you go raid some lost ark instead of a fictional nation? Is your ego that fragile that you have to prove how big and bad you are?

[Captain-Socialist]

Selucian Crusader did nothing to Bean in Hulstria. He had no involvement with what me and Polites were doing. It was quite a surprise when I logged on to the forum to find some new guy I'd never encountered before gloating about it and claiming it was a victory for some organisation I'd never heard of.

What we were doing wasn't a nation raid on behalf of any clique of players, we were just doing what we like to do, RP Gao-Showan nationalists in a country that had a history that involved Gao-Showans. Now, as a long term player I remember the days when we had the NWO. Many people on the forum seem to be nostalgic for that, and yet those were the days when a nation could be completely transformed without any moderator having to get involved. I turned Al'Badara into a German Nazi Soviet Union around about the NWO invasion of Aloria, and it wasn't out of any kind of spite against Al'Badaran players. For one thing, I'd been an Al'Badaran player for most of my time in the game at that point (when I joined it was lead by a Slavic party, that wouldn't be allowed today either by the cultural protocol puritans). It was just something you could do when their weren't many other players around. In fact, it was already occupied by another NWO "raider" when I arrived. And you know what, Al'Badara wasn't ruined forever because I'd changed it's culture once. It became an Arab nation again, and the best of Arab nations in the game. RP takeovers rarely last or even work if there are other players active who care about the culture under attack, what is really destroying the game are the hordes of players who treat it as an electoral simulator and don't use the forums or read the background of their nations. That and all this unnecessary OOC drama.

[Martinulus]

Speaking as a player who cared enough about Hulstria's culture to fight back, I can vouch for that, although I hope this is going to be the last time somebody abuses the Gao-Showans to try and create a dictatorship in some country, or at least in Hulstria. As I explained, tensions between Gao-Showans and Hulstrians should be becoming very unrealistic 1000 years after apartheid.

Also, your party wasn't Gao-Showan, it was insane communist fascism. Unless you played Gekokujo at the time.

Oh and by the way, what happened to Bean (I've read the thread) was revolting, especially the way SC gloated about it.

[Captain-Socialist]

I went for the insane Communist Fascism because everybody else had buggered off at that point. I started off with a leftie democratic party.

[Martinulus]

Oh, by the way... if anyone remembers P2's Meiru, I'd get very cross if somebody tried to change that without the agreement of me, yacoded and the SLM, so while I can't fathom that Polites wouldn't have consulted Bean on what he was about to do, I can sort of understand those feelings.

Particracy is not a culture game, it's a political simulator. Culture is a long-standing thing and it should be RPed as such. If somebody wanted to abolish the monarchy in Hulstria and Gao-Soto, I would try to block it but if it happened in a realistic way in keeping with national culture, I'd consider it history, not spite or unrealistic. If it accompanies a sudden culture change because people just like to make all new cultures, I'd have more problems with it. If people want to create their own cultures, there's 3 options:
- Go to a nation without one
- Wait until P2 is up again and build your own nation there, pretty of good stuff there, I can vouch for it (in fact, I've played P2 longer than P1, almost).
- Try creative writing and world-building without a game attached to it.

Failing that, actually try to work with what other players do. It's a lot nicer. I don't just ignore CS's dictatorship, I live with it and use it to drive Hulstria and Gao-Soto's history forward (although I hope people will stick with the resulting FRG-like developments which made people very constitutionalism and democracy-minded, and very tolerant because, you know, the Gao-Showan Emperor is a national hero of the people).

Oh and may I remind people of how I sort of created a lot of stuff for Western Hosianism (I'd say most of it) and have never ever asked to lead a major Patriarchal Church? On hindsight, I actually enjoy the religious retcon (although remind me to ask SC to stop saying "God Eliyahu" because I don't know what he means and it screws up liturgy and theology of Western Hosianism, according to which it should be "God and Spirit" when referring to both, or just "Eliyahu Hosios" or "God", not both).

[SelucianCrusader]

Ironic that a monarchist wants to see monarchies torn down?

Nah. It all began when the IML lined up to defend a dynasty in Pontesi that they didn't even recognize (the Mederagaars, whose player I sincerely miss since he was a quite good storyteller). After I fled with my organisation to Barmenia, UniSocAll and I developed a quite good relationship together, and I realised that if I wanted to take over Pontesi again, I could get support from the ATR, since the only thing that seemed to matter at the time was the number of countries ratifying the ATR treaty, not ideology or political philosophy (he also contacted me when I briefly ruled Davostan with my national-communist death knight cult, so the spreading of human rights hardly seemed to have been the main issue). That's how I became an ATR:er. It's not that I'm really against monarchies, it's just that the IML:s system of recognition won't allow me to set up a dictatorship/despotic monarchy somewhere and have it recognized.

I, quite frankly, do not understand your continuing hatred and vitriol against the IML, SelucianCrusader. I will start my post by first stating that over my roughly 5 years in Particracy, I have actively participated (in varying forms) in both the ATR and the IML. You have, for ages, sat and spewed bile at the IML. If you see Bean's frustrated exit from the game as a victory (you do), I see it as sad. That was an example of a person being driven away primarily by your doing, and you continue to parade it as a high point in your career. This needs to stop. No matter who it is, a player leaving the game in frustration is not going to help the game as a whole, and we need to drop that line of thinking here and now. I don't care how much you hated him or what he stood for. Leave it alone and have a little respect for him as a person.

I feel no hatred toward the IML OOC:ly, although I certainly have not-so-positive feelings about Fred and Meritocracy, though I'm not the one for reiterating bad feelings of old, especially now when those guys are gone. When Hulstia was taken over, I felt happy for it for two reasons; I imagined that it would provide may interesting opportunities for RP, especially with the inclusion of Gao Soto, and it was an idea UniSocAll had greatly promoted, though he wasn't there to witness his vision coming to life. Of course I got mad when Bean insulted me in his last thread, but I have no reason to endlessly repeat it like a bad gramophone.

And in what way can I be held responsible for Bean leaving? Like CS wrote, I have never set foot in Hulstria.

As for the ATR and the IML specifically, come on. Both groups are dead. Just because you post in the ATR nastily with cat party and Siggon, bashing the mods and the "IML conspiracy" doesn't mean that there is any more truth to your arguments. The IML sits quietly, useless. It has not functioned as a military alliance for ages and will not again. You can mark my words. The ATR is the same way. No one cares. It literally is you, cat party, Siggon, and the Grand National Party or whatever from Keymon talking about some ATR meeting that will never happen and wouldn't matter if it did.

Their both lacking in activity, yes, but I wouldn't say that the ATR is dead. There is nothing that says that the ATR can't be re-vitalised, and of course I as co-leader bear some of the responsibility for not actively trying to engage other members of the organisation.

Let's move on. And let's let Bean rest in peace. In all his time as a moderator, I rarely took issue with Bean, and I think that few really did. Let him sit in the respect that he deserves for 99% of his time here rather than destroy his reputation based on the 1% of frustration that we saw following his fall.

Fine, I see no reason to contest that he did dedicate a lot of his time for this game. Just a bit astounded about the tone of an ex-moderator, but we don't need to go into that one more time.

How would you like it if I came to your house and raided it? Would you like it if I took your Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Xbox, laptop and 22 year old sister (who had plastic surgery to enhance certain features) and then said, "Sorry, their mine now. I suggest you get the hell out, and deal with it." Would you like that?

Dude, the nations don't belong to any of us. No matter how much I'd love if Barmenia was the property of catparty alone and everyone trying to introduce generic republics were banned from the game, it's not the way it works. We develop the lore of this world together.

Btw, I prefer noodles or risifrutti as junk food. Or just a sandwich with blue cheese and an extra strong beer.

No you wouldn't, so don't go around raiding other nations, especially if it's to spite another person and SC, sorry I have to say this, but you are the biggest douche bag to ever play this game. What you did Bean in Hulstria was totally uncalled for and I find it amazing that people still want to play with you.

I'm sorry, but are you really referring to me or Captain Socialist (CS) here? Unless I've managed to do anything in the state of sleep walk, I've never sat foot in Hulstria/Gishoto, I even rejected taking part in the first attempted reformation of the country when I was asked to by fellow ATR:ers. I just got a bit exited when Polities, CS and the third person (sorry, my memory fails me on who this was) did their thing.

Oh and may I remind people of how I sort of created a lot of stuff for Western Hosianism (I'd say most of it) and have never ever asked to lead a major Patriarchal Church? On hindsight, I actually enjoy the religious retcon (although remind me to ask SC to stop saying "God Eliyahu" because I don't know what he means and it screws up liturgy and theology of Western Hosianism, according to which it should be "God and Spirit" when referring to both, or just "Eliyahu Hosios" or "God", not both).

I don't mind that you want a leadership position in the SPC (who wouldn't?), and you may as well have deserved it. I invented the saying as a gesture towards certain heretics, can't remember exactly which right now.

PS, be grateful, I just saved Malivia from a guy who wanted to introduce a HoS by the name "President" and a HoG by the name "Prime Minister".

PPS, just to remind some of you, the IML supported a "cultural genocide" (interesting turn of events) in Davostan, were one of the game's oldest continuous cultural identities was discarded for a time in favour of a "Game of thrones"-style of culture, bought there by Kazulian invaders. I thought it was interesting, but it isn't too different from the rise of felinism in Barmenia or my own adventure in Pontesi.

[Martinulus]

Well then, I might as well ask for a leadership post in the SPC so I can work towards a single Western Patriarchal Church or at least a Communion the way Polites has been doing with the Eastern Churches. Because that's on my wish list (the Aurorian Patriarchal Church unity thing, not SPC leadership).

Also, I view the saying as being theologically wrong because according to binitarian doctrine, Eliyahu is both God and different from God, therefore "God Eliyahu" is theologically incorrect because it implies perfect unity between God and Spirit.

[SelucianCrusader]

And so, you have been elevated to a leadership position in the SPC. Well deserved, I must say.

I think I considered it in the line of how Virgin Mary is named Theotocos IRL. Somehow. But I agree with you, it is theologically incorrect for the reasons you mentioned.