I had a dream..

[Zanz]

But Terra does need a well-developed (RP-wise) boring country somewhere.

Um, why?

[Aquinas]

This is going way off the subject of SC's dream, but Barmenia and Dranland are both nations close to my heart so forgive me if i butt my nose in .

Now, to answer your points, the problem I see with the cat worship in Barmenia is not the cat part in itself, but the circumstances under which it was established. Barmenia already had a rich developed culture, with its own language and all. Plus, it was established as the birthplace of Islam/Queranzariah. Then, out of the blue, it becomes a nation of cat-worshipers after the revelation received by some lady. It would be as if Saudi Arabia suddenly turned to the worship of dogs after some dude had dreams about Anubis the god.

I'm not saying that Felinism should be removed from Barmenia, or that your Equinaria, for instance, should be rejected from the start. What I am saying is that there should have been more effort to integrate the new original culture into what had already been established. Originality does not have to mean ignoring the work of previous players.

At the time I created the Feline Homeland of Barmenia, Barmenia had been inactive for some time and I was the only player there. There were some complaints, so I consulted Moderation and was assured that what I was doing was okay. I recall receiving a bit of private hate mail at the time calling me expletives and accusing me of "cultural genocide", which took me aback a bit. This may sound unfair, but to be honest with you, because of this I suspected the people complaining about Barmenia were mainly nutcases.

In retrospect, I feel a lot more sympathetic to the view expressed by Polites above. I didn't totally wipe out Barmenia's history or anything, though. And if you read the Barmenia wiki I did, you'll see that I emphasised the Muslims and the other religious groups were still around - just most of them had integrated their faith with Felinism to a greater or lesser extent. But I would agree that the transition to Felinism ought to have been done in more detail - and maybe over a wider span of time as well. You can't entirely blame me for all that though; perhaps I ought to have been given more guidance/support over what I was doing at the time?

Now turning to Dranland...yes, it is a more conventional nation - we don't have wars and revolutions every other month. However, having played in Barmenia (then an unconventional, one-party nation) and Dranland (a conventional, now 9-party nation), I've seen what both "extremes" are like, and I would say they each have special playing pleasures of their own. I loved Barmenia, but I love Dranland as well. They are just different. Being "conventional" or "generic" or whatever does not stop a nation having high-quality, addictive roleplay. And by the way, Dranland - which I once jokingly dubbed "Drabland" - is not quite as dull as some people imagine. Someday soon we may be seeing the assassination of our Prime Minister .

[catparty]

I note that Barmenia retains a strong Islamo-Felinist tradition on the island of Kathuristan and we utilize them in RP from time to time.



After the Crusaders' prophesy of the Luthori/Deltarian War of Running Out of Money to Pay Their Militaries With occurred, Barmenian opportunists sent large breeding colonies of cats to each country.


Barmenia permitted the Luthori remnants to retain a monarchy and a lion as their national animal, for lions are cats. The difference now is that the Lion is King.


Despite forcing Felinism on Deltaria, Terran historians laud the Barmenians for still managing to restore more of Deltaria's culture than Deltaria has had in centuries. Czarina Каролина II has been at the forefront of the return of Deltaria's "golden age". Deltarian peasants protest that now the cats are better fed then they are. Terran historians laud that nod to its past culture as well.

[Afrocentric]

That does give off mixed messages - it's as boring as hell, but you want to come because you like it.

Yes and yes. Did I lose you yet chief?

[Aquinas]

That does give off mixed messages - it's as boring as hell, but you want to come because you like it.

Yes and yes. Did I lose you yet chief?

This may sound bizarre, but somehow I feel I understand exactly what Afrocentric means...and yet I can't explain it lol

[Farsun]

C'mon let's get to creating less generic nations! It's not everyday you can be such a badboy like me. I do not dislike Barmenia I just dislike what was done to it. It's previous history and culture was disregarded, I think that's just disrespectful to the players who worked hard to establish a rather unique and interesting culture but that apparently has no weight these days.

[Afrocentric]

C'mon let's get to creating less generic nations! It's not everyday you can be such a badboy. I do not dislike Barmenia I just dislike what was done to it. It's previous history and culture was disregarded, I think that's just disrespectful to the players who worked hard to establish a rather unique and interesting culture but that apparently has no weight these days.

Now how are we gonna create less generic nations when a few people, who shall remain nameless, loathe the idea of anything that isn't named President or Prime Minister? It's those people who are holding up the game; not Barmenia or Star Swirl the Bearded.

And I'll just say that some nations are better left off as being bland and generic due to their history (or lack thereoff) or because the need to counterbalance the amount of crazies in a particular area of Terra. Can you imagine if Artania was full of Badara's, Barmenia, Equestrian Empires and the like?

[Farsun]

Well, I think it should be noted that while particracy is a fictional game we have to realize that making these fairytale kingdoms and crazy non-realistic nations will lose a significant portion of the new players because most people who come here want a realistic Rp with nations that they can relate too. Don't get me wrong a crazy, egocentric dictatorship like we had in Al'badara with Jalal is absolutely golden and loved...but it's realistic. A nation of cat-worshippers is less attractive to new players, as crazy as it sounds.

[catparty]

It's previous history and culture was disregarded

I note that Barmenia retains a strong Islamo-Felinist tradition on the island of Kathuristan and we utilize them in RP from time to time.

Well, I think it should be noted that while particracy is a fictional game we have to realize that making these fairytale kingdoms and crazy non-realistic nations will lose a significant portion of the new players because most people who come here want a realistic Rp with nations that they can relate too. Don't get me wrong a crazy, egocentric dictatorship like we had in Al'badara with Jalal is absolutely golden and loved...but it's realistic. A nation of cat-worshippers is less attractive to new players, as crazy as it sounds.

How exactly is Barmenia unrealistic? Its not a magic land of talking cats or anything (I WISH!). It has a culture devoted to worshiping/honoring cats. That draws upon the real cat worship in ancient Egypt, modern day ultra-pet pampering and dressing up, the sacred role cows play in India, and it also draws upon how people get so excited about worshiping "Dead Carpenters on Sticks". Is the real world unrealistic? Perhaps.

Déjà vu.

I think that if anything scares off new players its how every "real world" religion has been renamed and changed in the past year or so. That was a very problematic move.

[SelucianCrusader]

Well, I think it should be noted that while particracy is a fictional game we have to realize that making these fairytale kingdoms and crazy non-realistic nations will lose a significant portion of the new players because most people who come here want a realistic Rp with nations that they can relate too. Don't get me wrong a crazy, egocentric dictatorship like we had in Al'badara with Jalal is absolutely golden and loved...but it's realistic.

No matter how much I love being a catholic IRL, you can't say worshipping cats is less "unrealistic" than praying to angels, which I do myself from time to time. Or just take the entire Hindu religion.

If anything, Hulstria under Mr. Bean felt unrealistic, with it's 19'th century inspiration and style in a game that was supposed to resemble the modern day world. Taking your reasoning to it's logical end, one could argue that the entire IML should be banned from the game, as a military alliance based solely on the idea of protecting constitutional monarchy feels unrealistic in today's modern world.

A nation of cat-worshippers is less attractive to new players, as crazy as it sounds.

There are plenty of generic republics available to them, around 30-40 or so.

At the time I created the Feline Homeland of Barmenia, Barmenia had been inactive for some time and I was the only player there. There were some complaints, so I consulted Moderation and was assured that what I was doing was okay. I recall receiving a bit of private hate mail at the time calling me expletives and accusing me of "cultural genocide", which took me aback a bit. This may sound unfair, but to be honest with you, because of this I suspected the people complaining about Barmenia were mainly nutcases.

In retrospect, I feel a lot more sympathetic to the view expressed by Polites above. I didn't totally wipe out Barmenia's history or anything, though. And if you read the Barmenia wiki I did, you'll see that I emphasised the Muslims and the other religious groups were still around - just most of them had integrated their faith with Felinism to a greater or lesser extent. But I would agree that the transition to Felinism ought to have been done in more detail - and maybe over a wider span of time as well. You can't entirely blame me for all that though; perhaps I ought to have been given more guidance/support over what I was doing at the time?

You should feel no bad feelings for what you did. Of course it could have been integrated into the old Jelbek Muslim tradition better, but seriously? You made a fantastic contribution to the game, and since no one wanted to RP with the Jelbek culture that existed before any longer, no one should be complaining. Especially if they return 1.5 years after felinism was introduced.