Let's allow multis!

[CCP]

This thread is based on the premise of a limited number of multis, so I get why the conversation (and you and Reddy's decision) focused on that.

But with 62% of the game empty (172 active parties currently out of 464 available spots), I do wonder if the "limited multis" reflex is misplaced.

If unlimited multis were allowed, the only problem that occurs to me is crowding-out new players. That seems like it could be easily remedied by deactivating the most prolific multi-ers when nearing the 464 limit. Paired with mandatory disclosure of multis and prohibitions on puppet-wanking, it seems to me that moderators could be largely freed-up from multi hunting.

All that said, unlimited multis would be a genie that couldn't easily be put back in its lamp if it created unforeseen, unmanageable problems. So I think such a move requires input and interrogation from as many players as possible, so I hope others will chime in here.

Thanks again Aquinas and Reddy for giving it a serious look, and I don't mean to draw you guys into a debate re-litigating your decision. So I'll understand if you're reluctant to say much more here. If so, I'll ask for another ruling if and when any workable suggestions come out of this thread.

[Captain-Socialist]

99% of when I get in a RP slump is due to wanting to do something new but being afraid of seeing my work replaced by blandocracies, so I just sit around.

[hts]

I felt like this about Saridan for a while. Every time I left it immediately became either a poorly RPed racist hellhole that was full of slavery and had a confusing anti-black racial policy (despite the fact that there are no black people in Saridan), or a half-ass communist state that disregarded all the recent RPs that I worked hard on. I had so many things I wanted to do, and sometimes I would leave to start new RPs in other countries. However, I would have to stop these RPs in order to return to Saridan and fix things.

The worst part of it was that the parties would inactivate immediately upon my return, so I would be stuck in Saridan alone for weeks, finally decide to leave, and then they would immediately reactivate. It was incredibly frustrating. Eventually I had to come to terms with the fact that any RP, no matter how excellent, will likely be entirely disregarded the moment you leave the nation.

I do wish that some multis were allowed. I think it would be good for myself, and the game as a whole. However, I do understand why it would be difficult.

[Aquinas]

a poorly RPed racist hellhole that was full of slavery and had a confusing anti-black racial policy (despite the fact that there are no black people in Saridan)

I am not aware of the full details of what you are referring to, but I would point out that the Game Rules do provide some protection against role-play that doesn't take adequate account of a Culturally Protected nation's cultural background (see section 6.1). So, for example, if somebody was role-playing as though there was a significant black population in Saridan when there is not, then that is something Moderation could tackle.

[hts]

a poorly RPed racist hellhole that was full of slavery and had a confusing anti-black racial policy (despite the fact that there are no black people in Saridan)

I am not aware of the full details of what you are referring to, but I would point out that the Game Rules do provide some protection against role-play that doesn't take adequate account of a Culturally Protected nation's cultural background (see section 6.1). So, for example, if somebody was role-playing as though there was a significant black population in Saridan when there is not, then that is something Moderation could tackle.

The problem was that he would barely mention it. He instituted a ton of racist policies without specifying what race he was discriminating against in the bills.

However, his party description says this

Our priorities if elected

1) ensure Saridani people come first in everything.
2) ensure economic prosperity for Saridan
3) close our borders
4) withdraw from all treaties which force us to make laws.
5) kick out blacks, gays and ethnic minorities.

I also recall him quoting George Wallace in bill descriptions. But it doesn't really matter now because he has been inactive for a while. I probably should have said something then, but it's too late now.

[Kubrick]

I like how C-S put it and it's exactly why I left Valruzia and returned to Vanuku. Someone made a party with only Dutch names, neglecting the Jelbic culture and simply changed the HoS to "President". It's sad but I can't see Vanuku be turned into that without a proper parliamentary fight.

[toro42]

If we were to limit it to two accounts in different nations, it wouldn't be too chaotic, nor would it be too quiet.

[Captain-Socialist]

Perhaps this could be worked into the nation master system somehow. A nation master could basically have the right to keep a permanent presence in the nation of which they have responsibility. Since nation masters are a smaller group and more present on the forum some of the problems around regulation might be solved. New players can't pretend to be us (us being the "core" forum community), especially if we are staying active.

That being said, I think we need to face that if we are too risk averse about the need for extra regulation we run the risk of throwing away what is probably the only way to improve the game which doesn't involve more regulations. I get a feeling we've been trying to solve our problem, that is that there are two few of "us" covering too many nations, by trying to legislate it away more rules. But the real problem is that we have a tiny intake of new players, most of whom leave, never activate on the forum or are sub-standard. Even if they aren't, the chances are of new players of the calibre of Jalal or Jethro or Polites or whoever it is you like appearing are very slim. And we have no way of increasing that intake, no plan, other than to present this ephemeral trickle of new members with yet more and more rules designed to keep them under the control of the core community, most of which they won't be aware of until that first PM from moderation. And if that intake were to increase I think most of us wouldn't like some of the effects that would have.

Not that the rules are bad, they aren't. But they can't solve the problems caused by inactivity and a small player base who have to inactivate and reactivate every times they have a new idea. A culture protocol left undefended can still be changed in unspeakably lame ways without rules being broken. Poor Polities is always running around Terra like some overworked CEO who never gets to see his kids, propping up culture after culture. Others, like me, get stuck in a rut because we get too attached to somewhere to leave it but aren't up to RP'ing it solo for weeks and weeks without response from anyone and are too afraid to follow our ideas for a anarcho-capitalist Kafuristan or want to spend some time RP'ing with in-game friends or whatever. I for one look on my time in Sekowo with Polities and Zongxian as one of the best times of my Particracy life, but I know I can't expect Zongxian to leave Dankuk for too long and Polites is always busy with some Majatran nation or other. Big planned RP wars go a way to solving this but don't solve the innate sadness of one-party play. We can't be trusting. We in the core community have put so much into this setting but can't maintain it half as well as we want. We get into this weird state of affairs where some of the most well thought out, important and well-crafted nations are almost always on the brink of being empty. Indrala is empty right now. Indrala! But what is really sad is that this is the closet thing that we have to an ideal suitation. Their very emptiness is the best and only real defence most nations have, since it allows us to quickly restore things as long as we remain motivated to do so. We patiently wait out the noobs and sweep back in again to undo their damage.

We really, really need to be in more than one place at once. That way we don't have to choose between enjoying the game to the fullest extent possible and protecting our world-building. What is more, with the players of higher calibre being able to multi would me we wouldn't have to depend on being one-party states, we could safely swim in other peoples ponds without leaving our most treasured nation undefended. We all have one, Selucian Crusader may start the same weird druid populist party in every nation on Terra but he always goes back to Pontesi. The ability for elite players to multi and therefore to improve the quality and quantity of RP, frankly, is worth the risk of a little chaos. The alternative is further stagnation.

[CCP]

Very well said @Captain-Socialist.

I have a hard time picturing how Aquinas and Reddy could IP-verify nationmaster accounts in a way that isn't unwieldy or would overwork them the way they seemed to be saying a 2-or-3-multis-for-everyone situation would.

That's why I think we need to consider just eliminating the no-multis rule. Maybe that could be tied into the nationmaster system somehow where nationmasters could act as assistant moderators or something, reporting to the Mods specific multi problems in the countries they cover.

[toro42]

CCP's right about the nationmaster reporting. We can appoint a nationmaster in each nation to report on activities. As long as we can limit the multi-accounting to two parties in different countries and maybe for players who have played the game for a certain time (3-4 months?) OR have Moderation handle it on a case-by-case business, it should be fairly smooth.