Terra Power and Development Index

[PaleRider]

This talk about nuclear weapons and who has them has rekindled my interest in creating some sort of loose analytical index to classify who are the powerful nations in Terra. So here it is! The TPDI will be split into two parts: one part will judge power based on RP history, govt policies, defense and FA spending along with related policies, and how active a nation is abroad; the other part will rank how developed a nation is based on cultural protocol, RP history, govt policies both in game and RP wise, internal stability, foreign relaitons, economic development, and educational levels. Lots of this will admittedly be based off how i imply youre nation to look and feel based off cultural protocols and RP's...so here is my first shot at it!

POWER INDEX:
VERY HIGH POWER- nations that are either global superpowers or a first among equals power
Indrala

HIGH POWER- nations that can be considered regional hegemons and exert some degree of influence beyond their borders
Zardugal
Dundorf
Trigunia
Lodamun
Hulstria

LOW HIGH POWER- nations that can successfully challenge the local status quo and/or influence events abroad in some limited fashion
Jelbania
Vanuku
Barmenia
Solentia
Cildania
New Endralon

MIDDLE POWER NATIONS- regional power players but lack the heft and influence of other nations, marginal influence on broad international issues
Dranland
Kazulia
Luthori
Dorvik
Selucia
Rildanor
Kafuristan
Deltaria
Turkali
Gaduridos
Egelion
Rutania
Hutori
Dolgava
Mordusia

LOWER MIDDLE POWER- sub-regional players, lack heft or influence abroad
Lourenne
Alduria
Kanjor
Aldegar
Kalopia
Barmenia
Beityhnu
Pontesi
Cobura
Sekowo
Aloria
Beluzia
Darnussia
Saridan
Davostag
Telamon

LOW POWER NATIONS- barely regional players, some marginal local influence at best
Kalopia
Istalia
Baltusia
Likatonia
Kalistan
Ikradon
Kundrati
Endralon
Kirlawa
Keymon

VERY LOW POWER- virtually no influence abroad, internal instability, no one watches them for any world event
Talmoria
Jakania
Vorona

------------------------------------------------------DISREGARD------------------------------------------------------
DEVELOPMENT INDEX: this index is divided into Upper, Middle and Lower Classes and each itself is divided Upper, Middle and Lower
UPPER CLASS: nations characterized by high levels of economic development, high educational standards, strong social cohesion, very low internal instability
UPPER UPPER-
Indrala
Zardugal (?)

MIDDLE UPPER-
Zardugal (?)
Solentia
Hulstria
Lodamun

LOWER UPPER-
Cildania
Selucia
Rildanor
Mordusia


MIDDLE CLASS: nations characterized by strong internal cohesion, mid-high levels of economic development etc
UPPER MIDDLE-
Luthori
Dorvik
Jelbania
Vanuku
Rutania

MIDDLE MIDDLE-
Kalistan
Likatonia
Kafuristan
Barmenia
Beityhnu
Cobura
Kanjor
Hutori
Darnussia
New Endralon
Endralon
Dolgava
Telamon

LOWER MIDDLE-
Lourenne
Malivia
Pontesi
Aloria
Ikradon
Kirlawa
Eglion
Trigunia
Davostag


LOWER CLASS: nations with low internal stability, little economic progress etc
UPPER LOWER-
Al'Badara
Deltaria
Kalopia

MIDDLE LOWER-
Jakania
Baltusia

LOWER LOWER-
Vorona
Talmoria

[Aquinas]

An interesting set of lists, PaleRider!

Some while ago Siggon drew up a list of the nations in order of GDP size. It was drawn up by using the in-game economic figures combined with a table of currency exchange rates which Wouter made ages ago. If my memory is correct, Egelion was pretty high on the GDP list (despite being "lower middle" in your list) and Hustria was fairly low down the table (despite being "middle upper" in your list). Presumably those figures didn't take into account colonies/empires, which makes complicates things further... Anyway, I'm not particularly saying either your analysis or Siggon's is "correct" or "wrong".

People often complain that too many nations are roleplayed as first world countries - even as military superpowers. One of the reasons for this is that most (not all) players come from first world nations, so it is natural for them to want to to roleplay what they are familiar with. To be fair, though, the menu of legislative options available in Particracy does rather prompt players to assume they are roleplaying in a first world nation. They can legislate, for example, to do such things as build nuclear weapons, construct nuclear shelters, use nuclear energy, run space programs, develop forensic DNA databases, operate a national internet service provider, fund expensive overseas aid packages and splash out on welfare payments and public services. When given all these options, it would be counter-intuitive to assume you are playing in a second or third world nation. At least for a new player, anyway.

In an ideal world, I think we would have a different menu of legislative options for different nations according to their wealth and power. For the short to medium term, perhaps it is worth drawing up an "OOC Third World Nation Realism Treaty" for nations being roleplayed as poorer countries. This Treaty would take away the options which are less realistic for a poor nation to have, and provide general guidelines for how poor nations should be roleplayed.

[Siggon Kristov]

Some while ago Siggon drew up a list of the nations in order of GDP size. It was drawn up by using the in-game economic figures combined with a table of currency exchange rates which Wouter made ages ago. If my memory is correct, Egelion was pretty high on the GDP list (despite being "lower middle" in your list) and Hustria was fairly low down the table (despite being "middle upper" in your list).

I didn't even take this listing seriously.

People often complain that too many nations are roleplayed as first world countries - even as military superpowers. One of the reasons for this is that most (not all) players come from first world nations, so it is natural for them to want to to roleplay what they are familiar with. To be fair, though, the menu of legislative options available in Particracy does rather prompt players to assume they are roleplaying in a first world nation. They can legislate, for example, to do such things as build nuclear weapons, construct nuclear shelters, use nuclear energy, run space programs, develop forensic DNA databases, operate a national internet service provider, fund expensive overseas aid packages and splash out on welfare payments and public services. When given all these options, it would be counter-intuitive to assume you are playing in a second or third world nation. At least for a new player, anyway.

In an ideal world, I think we would have a different menu of legislative options for different nations according to their wealth and power. For the short to medium term, perhaps it is worth drawing up an "OOC Third World Nation Realism Treaty" for nations being roleplayed as poorer countries. This Treaty would take away the options which are less realistic for a poor nation to have, and provide general guidelines for how poor nations should be roleplayed.

I don't think different countries should have different legislative options. That will just complicate things. What would have been cool, if it could have been implemented, is the attachment of a cost to each policy. For example, universal healthcare would require a specific amount of money per citizen to be fully efficient, and an active professional army would need money as well. That way, every nation would have a recommended budget, and it would be assumed that they're underdeveloped (or unable to provided enough services as planned) if they don't meet those spending levels.

In my spreadsheets, the intention of the "subjective remarks" part was to suggest how a nation should act/RP (like the Economic Protocols aimed to do), based on how their budget is. Not every nation can afford to have a super strong military with nuclear weapons, along with universal healthcare and free education. Maybe Egelion can, and Jelbania had a strong economy with super-high spending once (now they have high spending, but not such a great economy), but not every nation can do that.

[EEL123]

I didn't even take this listing seriously.

Ditto. There are just so many issues with list that it's more holey than Swiss cheese and the Titanic put together. Take, for example, the idea that Indrala is the world's premier superpower. Really? It can't even (realistically) invade a fairly nearby, militarily inept country like Dranland. Or Luthori being a middle power - it's got an insanely huge colonial empire to start off with. They'd be like the Brits at the turn of the last century.

What would have been cool, if it could have been implemented, is the attachment of a cost to each policy.

I recall that I've brought this up before. Someone (it may have been you, Siggon; I'm not sure), offered to construct a huge spreadsheet with all the legislative options and their costs. They'd then be tabled up and categorised into each department.

[Siggon Kristov]

What would have been cool, if it could have been implemented, is the attachment of a cost to each policy.

I recall that I've brought this up before.

Yes, that was you.

Someone (it may have been you, Siggon; I'm not sure), offered to construct a huge spreadsheet with all the legislative options and their costs. They'd then be tabled up and categorised into each department.

Yes, that was me, and I did do a spreadsheet which you said was okay (despite me thinking it was cluttered).
Your NPI idea inspired the latest spreadsheet that I made.

[PaleRider]

EEL- while Luthori may have an insanely large colonial empire they arent really a power any more. theyve dropped a few places because of the way the monarchy fell and then subsequent RP history is why i decided to rank them lower than say Indrala which really is a preminent power, not some backwater nation.

Needless to say this is only a rough draft but this is roughly where i envision countries being at the moment. again i would like help and input if we are going to make this a permanent feature which i would like to. we could update it say every 10 in game years or so

[EEL123]

while Luthori may have an insanely large colonial empire they arent really a power any more. theyve dropped a few places because of the way the monarchy fell and then subsequent RP history is why i decided to rank them lower than say Indrala which really is a preminent power, not some backwater nation.

Firstly, regardless of internal instability or anything of the sort, Luthori is absolutely still a power. Take, for example, the USSR in the late 1980s. Its economy was falling apart. Its society was falling apart. Nobody would have argued that it was no longer a power. As for Indrala, no, it's not the big boy of the world. A global superpower must be able to literally invade almost any non-major power on the globe. The US, for say, could just rock up and blow the shit out of any country which was not a power of some sort (well, it used to; now it's got some competition).

[Siggon Kristov]

EEL- while Luthori may have an insanely large colonial empire they arent really a power any more. theyve dropped a few places because of the way the monarchy fell and then subsequent RP history is why i decided to rank them lower than say Indrala which really is a preminent power, not some backwater nation.

By that logic, Lodamun can't be in a higher class than Luthori because Lodamun hasn't been in a war in centuries. Until recently, Lodamun was dead (like Beluzia was dead before the late 3200s). And how did Dundorf get up there? Let me see their navy
PaleRider's listing looks like something to get Zardugal to look cool, while including Indrala at the top as an attempt to get Liu Che to support the list.
Notice how, in the economic listing, Indrala is at the top with Zardugal?

Anyway, according to KFS...
These are the top 15 GDPs in Terra (using KRV currency):
1) Aloria
2) Lodamun
3) Narikaton & Darnussia
4) New Endralon
5) Rutania
6) Rildanor
7) Jakania
8) Kirlawa
9) Selucia
10) Alduria
11) Barmenia
12) Aldegar
13) Cildania
14) Davostan
15) Tukarali

These are the top 15 GDPs in Terra (using LOD currency):
1) Jelbania
2) Kalopia
3) Aloria
4) Lodamun
5) Valruzia
6) Solentia
7) Narikaton & Darnussia
8) Rutania
9) New Endralon
10) Jakania
11) Rildanor
12) Kirlawa
13) Selucia
14) Barmenia
15) Alduria

Can you help me to find Indrala or Zardugal on any of those 2 listings? I must be blind.
Zardugal wasn't in the top 15 for potential GDP (in either currency) either, and Indrala wasn't even in the top 20.

--

Now, for the supposed Developmental Index:

UPPER CLASS: nations characterized by high levels of economic development, high educational standards, strong social cohesion, very low internal instability
UPPER UPPER-
Indrala
Zardugal (?)

MIDDLE UPPER-
Zardugal (?)
Solentia
Hulstria
Lodamun

Terra has less than 60 nations, so take that into account when looking at these...

Infrastructure & Transport spending per capita:
- Jakania scored higher than Indrala and Zardugal, by far
- Zardugal wasn't even in the top 30

Health & Social Services spending per capita:
- Indrala wasn't in the top 20
- Zardugal (a nation that funds emergency abortions and gives free drugs to some people) isn't in the top 45

Education & Culture spending per capita:
- Indrala's is pretty high; it's in the top 15
- Zardugal (a nation that gives education to prisoners, funds local governments to build tertiary institutions, partially subsidizes tertiary education tuition for all students, subsidizes media for education, and has "a free public education system alongside private schools") isn't in the top 45.

* Information is from May 3585

[Polites]

while Luthori may have an insanely large colonial empire they arent really a power any more. theyve dropped a few places because of the way the monarchy fell and then subsequent RP history is why i decided to rank them lower than say Indrala which really is a preminent power, not some backwater nation.

Firstly, regardless of internal instability or anything of the sort, Luthori is absolutely still a power. Take, for example, the USSR in the late 1980s. Its economy was falling apart. Its society was falling apart. Nobody would have argued that it was no longer a power. As for Indrala, no, it's not the big boy of the world. A global superpower must be able to literally invade almost any non-major power on the globe. The US, for say, could just rock up and blow the shit out of any country which was not a power of some sort (well, it used to; now it's got some competition).

By that same criterion, I'd argue that Deltaria should also be much higher up on the list. The Empire may have collapsed due to imperial overstretch and internal instability, but that doesn't mean it's no longer a power. I'd even argue that during its golden age the Empire could be considered the only superpower in recent PT history, as it had a foothold on every continent (except for Artania) and could reasonably challenge any other power (with the possible exception of Indrala, but that was an ally anyway).

[Siggon Kristov]

I'd argue that...

Be careful, Polites...
Don't argue with PaleRider's "analytical index" or he will accuse you of trolling. He already accused me.
Moderation should be able to verify that I'm telling the truth.