Jelbic Language

[Reddy]

One of the greatest innovations in Particracy is the Jelbic language - an entirely in-game language. I respect it deeply but IMO it has restricted cultural development and appreciation in the Jelbic speaking world, and few players there seem to bother with it much. It seems to turn off new players as well with the limited supply of names, titles etc. I believe other countries with difficult or dead languages like Deltaria Nova with its Anglo-Saxon English face similar issues, the language often ends totally ignored (in recent times, with the honourable exception of the current player Yellow Army) or worse, the country struggles to hold players.

Now I have a proposal: We should turn Jelbic into the ordinary RL Turko-Mongol family of languages. We would not have to abolish the current language not to retcon anything, the culture and history would remain the same. It would be much easier to RP if you don't have to create new words half the time but instead just look up a word on an online dictionary.

[Opakidabar]

I used to dislike them, but then I got used to it and now I am a fan

[Polites]

I used to dislike them, but then I got used to it and now I am a fan

Pwefectly sums up my own attitude towards them. Also, I don't think switching to, say, Mongolian or Kazakh is guaranteed to increase the popularity of Jelbic nations; as they are more RP-intensive and culturally alien for most PT players (unless we have a large number of players from Central Asia), I doubt any language shift, except perhaps to English, would attract a larger crowd. Besides, I'd say that the languages are relatively easy to use, owing at least to the rather extensive dictionary and the new naming systems, meaning that more casual players can still play in those nations without needing to master the grammatical intricacies of some obscure language. If you look at Jelbania's election history, you'll find a quite decent number of parties with names in Jelbek.

[Reddy]

I used to dislike them, but then I got used to it and now I am a fan

Oh as I said, I don't hate the language, just what i perceive to be its effects on the Jelbic countries - very few players. I'm not the only player to express reservations about the languages, a number of players have communicated their disinclination to play in the Jelbic countries because of the language.

If you look at Jelbania's election history, you'll find a quite decent number of parties with names in Jelbek.

Very true but very few bother beyond that. During the recent multiple party era, the parties did indeed translate their party names to Jelbic but not much else beyond that.

I don't think switching to, say, Mongolian or Kazakh is guaranteed to increase the popularity of Jelbic nations; as they are more RP-intensive and culturally alien for most PT players (unless we have a large number of players from Central Asia)

It's not guaranteed but I think it's worth a try. Certainly the status quo is not attractive to any new/old players.

[Polites]

If you look at Jelbania's election history, you'll find a quite decent number of parties with names in Jelbek.

Very true but very few bother beyond that. During the recent multiple party era, the parties did indeed translate their party names to Jelbic but not much else beyond that.

But isn't that true for pretty much every other nation whose language is not English (or French or German)? Very few people go beyond translating their party names into, for example, Russian or Arabic or Persian, if at all. The vast majority of players don't seem to be interested in playing in the context of an unfamiliar culture and using a language they are not fluent in, which I guess makes some sense; this is a political simulation game, not a cultural and alternate history game.

Although admittedly my views on the matter may be biased. I myself am guilty for introducing a number of rather obscure languages to the game, like Cildania's Phoenician or Cobura's Coptic, and would much rather devote some time to help players in those nations use those languages than replace them with something easier to use but which does not in itself guarantee more players.

[Reddy]

rather obscure languages to the game, like Cildania's Phoenician or Cobura's Coptic, and would much rather devote some time to help players in those nations use those languages than replace them with something easier to use but which does not in itself guarantee more players.

Phoenician and Coptic may indeed be obscure but I imagine they have dictionaries with more than 150ish words (like the Jelbic dictionary) OK I know the obvious solution to my irritation with the limited nature of the Jelbic dictionary would be to leave the country and go elsewhere (where there's a RL language). The problem is I don't want to do that, I feel that I've invested a lot of energy in Jelbania in developing its political and traditional culture and its wiki pages. If we don't do it for the new players, let just do it for me and possibly the other players in Jelbic countries (assuming they agree with me)

[Polites]

Well, if you can bring in Jelbic-Kazakh (or something else) bilingualism, where Jelbic is the prestige language and the other is the vernacular lingua franca, I guess that would make some sense. Kazakh also has the advantage of being written in all three Jelbic alphabets (Latin, Cyrillic, and Arabic). Personally though, I'd prefer Jelbic were retained as the sole language.

[Opakidabar]

It really will not help the others. Persian Aldegar is not that popular either, as well as other nations with very specific languages. So changing to Khazakh will only give more vocabulary to Jelbek nations, but will not make them more attractive.
I'd say use vocabulary from Khazakh for words that are not invented, or invent your own words/terms and add it to existing vocabulary

[Kubrick]

I've grown quite fond of Jelbic to be honest.

I just wish I had someone quick at hand I could use to help me translate stuff, so yes, basically the same problem you have Reddy. Limited dictionary and confusing grammar sort of limit me in changing the nation name.

That being said, any Jelbic-experts want to help me out?

[Reddy]

In Wales - although there's not a lot of Welsh-speakers - everything printed by the government (e.g. road signs, governmental correspondence etc) is in English AND Welsh. It's bilingual. Why not use some Jelbic words (the few you have available to you) and then another language (like Mongolian or Kazakh) too and call it something like "New Jelbic"?

This is what I had thought of originally. We could have Jelbic be the language of the masses and have the ruling classes speak Turko-Mongolian languages (perhaps Kazakh or Uzbek etc) I believe something like that is done in Pontesi where English is the language of the ruling class. IIRC this s what it was like in England where the aristocracy spoke French from 1066 to the 16th century at least.

So changing to Khazakh will only give more vocabulary to Jelbek nations, but will not make them more attractive.

Perhaps it is so but as I said a little earlier, let's forget about the new players and think of the RPing ones who have to struggle translating things already. There are no words in the Jelbic dictionary for simple things like "history', "war", "love" or "city" To expect someone to have to create words each time before RPing is just too much. Incidentally here's a very good English-Persian dictionary without the squiggles (http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/hayyim/)