Lodamun's Currency

[Siggon Kristov]

Should the LOD (Lodamun's currency) be the "default and official" international currency of Terra?

Arguments for:
- It's the strongest currency.
- It was stated in the Economic Protocols established by Liu Che.

Arguments against:
- The US dollar is not the strongest currency in the real world, but it is the international trading currency.
- The Economic Protocols can be amended.
- Lodamun's relevance as an international power is disputed, as it has been the target of many sanctions.
- Players/characters may want to have "international banks" in their own countries that publish their own statistics in their preferred currency.
- Roleplay should have more importance in international trade than something permanently set down.

[Farsun]

Dorvish Dolgar is the new international currency brah, everything is worthless compared to it.

Note: No one gives a shit, remember that Siggon, people don't give a shit who you are or what you are trying to accomplish. They're going to do what they want regardless of your stupid as poll.

[Siggon Kristov]

Dorvish Dolgar is the new international currency brah, everything is worthless compared to it.

This doesn't make any sense. It's misrepresenting what I am saying, and it would be against the game's rules since the rates page states a specific value for Dorvik's currency (the KRV isn't governed by the rates page).

By saying that another currency could be used as the international currency, I am not saying that we should not use the game's rates. Even if Dorvik's currency became the new currency, we would still use the rates given on the rates page. We would use this page whenever we want to use a static currency, whether it's LOD, Dorvik's currency, or Kirlawa's currency.

I'm not saying that anyone else can declare their nation's currency as the strongest currency in the world and decide new rates for it. I am saying that any nation's currency can be used as the international trading currency, whether it is the strongest currency or not. The USA isn't the strongest currency in the real world, but it is still the international trading currency.

Note: No one gives a shit, remember that Siggon,

If you didn't give a shit, you wouldn't be getting so hung up about this.

people don't give a shit who you are

I'm not asking them to.

or what you are trying to accomplish.

Just trying to satisfy players by doing things to their convenience.

They're going to do what they want regardless of your stupid as poll.

You can pretend that the LOD is still realistically the international trading currency in Terra. I'm not saying that you can't. Other players will do what they want, I agree. I'm not the one saying that they should only be allowed to use the LOD... you are. They will do what they want, regardless of your imagination that Liu Che said things that he never did.

[Kubrick]

I do agree it makes, in IC terms, little sense for the base currency of Terra to be Lodamun's. Look how many sanctions Lodamun has had these past two hundred years, first the Hosian nations all united against it because they persecuted Hosians, countless of diplomatic things and yesterday the Vanuku vs Lodamun showdown.

But then again, which nation isn't ripe in controversy.

[Aquinas]

A general reminder, everybody: this discussion needs to be courteous.

Putting forward a few of my own perspectives here, and they may be wrong so don't hesitate to tell me if they are...

Many players have come to see the LOD as Terra's most significant international currency of exchange. This may be partly because Lodamun was at one time seen as a sort of America-equivalent; partly because of how it is referenced in the Economic Protocols; partly because it is the strongest currency; and partly because in the past, players have used the LOD for international economic comparisons (including in Siggon's spreadsheet, but I'm pretty sure other players have done the same too over the years). This would seem to point towards an "argument from general acceptance/consensus" in favour of the LOD being regarded as the equivalent in RL terms of the dollar.

That said, I would certainly agree with Siggon that there is no reason players shouldn't be able to RP the decline in significance in the LOD and the rise in significance of other currencies. I also agree with him that there is no obvious reason why players, or for example, in-game characters and institutions, should not use alternatives to the LOD as a main source of reference.

And yes, looking at Lodamun's recent history, there do seem reasons to presume its economy, and especially its trading relationships, have taken a hit as a result of sanctions and boycotts. All of those things could have affected the LOD and how it is perceived around Terra.

[Siggon Kristov]

I do agree it makes, in IC terms, little sense for the base currency of Terra to be Lodamun's. Look how many sanctions Lodamun has had these past two hundred years

Thanks for seeing my point.
And even before that, there wasn't much RP in Lodamun for a long while. It was just said to be the financial centre of the world.

Many players have come to see the LOD as Terra's most significant international currency of exchange. This may be partly because Lodamun was at one time seen as a sort of America-equivalent; partly because of how it is referenced in the Economic Protocols; partly because it is the strongest currency; and partly because in the past, players have used the LOD for international economic comparisons (including in Siggon's spreadsheet, but I'm pretty sure other players have done the same too over the years). This would seem to point towards an "argument from general acceptance/consensus" in favour of the LOD being regarded as the equivalent in RL terms of the dollar.

The thing is... the US dollar is not the strongest currency in the real world, but it is still the most significant international currency of exchange. As for my spreadsheets, listings can be done in any currency. The spreadsheet will convert everything to LOD, BEL, INS, or any other currency with just 2 clicks. Regardless of which one of those static in-game currencies is used, the rates will be based on the Currency Exchange Rates page, so it's not like using an alternative is changing the value of any currency.

That said, I would certainly agree with Siggon that there is no reason players shouldn't be able to RP the decline in significance in the LOD and the rise in significance of other currencies. I also agree with him that there is no obvious reason why players, or for example, in-game characters and institutions, should not use alternatives to the LOD as a main source of reference.

You mean like this new institution? Yeah, I don't see why they should be forced to use the LOD. I think they should use Egelion's currency if they want to.

And yes, looking at Lodamun's recent history, there do seem reasons to presume its economy, and especially its trading relationships, have taken a hit as a result of sanctions and boycotts. All of those things could have affected the LOD and how it is perceived around Terra.

Yeah, it may be the strongest currency in value, just like the currency of the Cayman Islands is stronger than the USA's currency, but it probably isn't universally-appreciated. I think Zardugal and/or Solentia banned it at some point.

[SSLU]

given on the rates page.

My national currency's value is embarrassing.
Is there a way to improve the currency value Siggon?

ICly it would make perfect sense to make LOD the main international currency as Lodamun seems to be the economical center of the world. As Aquinas stated, the economic protocols and the economic comparisions make your country the terran economic powerhouse. Making the strongest currency be the international currency we would make Terra differ from the real world more and that is desireable.

Shortly, I support this motion.

[Siggon Kristov]

Is there a way to improve the currency value Siggon?

No.

ICly it would make perfect sense to make LOD the main international currency as Lodamun seems to be the economical center of the world.

Really? Because this treaty is building a world financial trade centre in Egelion, and Lodamun doesn't have such an institution (anymore). Also, Lodamun has no allies, and Lodamun has been the subject of countless sanctions over the past 300 years. The call for Lodamun to be seen as the economical centre of the world is an OOC call, not an IC one, because other players do not think it makes IC sense at all.

As Aquinas stated, the economic protocols and the economic comparisions make your country the terran economic powerhouse.

Aquinas did not say that. He does not think it makes IC sense that Lodamun is the financial centre in the world or an economic powerhouse:

And yes, looking at Lodamun's recent history, there do seem reasons to presume its economy, and especially its trading relationships, have taken a hit as a result of sanctions and boycotts. All of those things could have affected the LOD and how it is perceived around Terra.

Aquinas was giving OOC reasons for the LOD being considered to be the international currency of exchange.

Making the strongest currency be the international currency we would make Terra differ from the real world more and that is desireable.

Ironically, the other people supporting the LOD as the "default and official" international currency think that it makes Terra more like the real world, and that's why they support the LOD.

Shortly, I support this motion.

There is no motion to support. The LOD is already considered to be the international currency of trade. It's just voting Yes/No, and you seem to have voted to keep what is already in place.

Voting "Yes" really means that you think that only the LOD should be allowed to be the international currency, and that you don't want IC events to be able to change that. It's a slap in the face to anyone who puts time and effort into RP and tries to make their own country the financial centre of the world.

Voting "No" means that you think that IC factors should determine the international currency, even if you think it makes IC sense that the LOD is the international currency.

If you want the international currency to be determined by IC/RP factors, and if you genuinely think it makes IC/RP sense for the LOD to be the international currency of trade, you would vote "No" in the poll. Voting "Yes" means that you support an OOC attachment to the LOD, regardless of what happens IC or in RP.

[SSLU]

Making the strongest currency be the international currency we would make Terra differ from the real world more and that is desireable.

Ironically, the other people supporting the LOD as the "default and official" international currency think that it makes Terra more like the real world, and that's why they support the LOD.

That seems illogical, USD isn't the strongest currency if I recall correctly.

Aquinas did not say that. He does not think it makes IC sense that Lodamun is the financial centre in the world or an economic powerhouse:

I meant OOC, sorry for that illogical mistake.

There is no motion to support. The LOD is already considered to be the international currency of trade. It's just voting Yes/No, and you seem to have voted to keep what is already in place.

Voting "Yes" really means that you think that only the LOD should be allowed to be the international currency, and that you don't want IC events to be able to change that. It's a slap in the face to anyone who puts time and effort into RP and tries to make their own country the financial centre of the world.

Voting "No" means that you think that IC factors should determine the international currency, even if you think it makes IC sense that the LOD is the international currency.

If you want the international currency to be determined by IC/RP factors, and if you genuinely think it makes IC/RP sense for the LOD to be the international currency of trade, you would vote "No" in the poll. Voting "Yes" means that you support an OOC attachment to the LOD, regardless of what happens IC or in RP.

Thanks for clarifying. Again, I'm a new player and I don't know much about the game yet. I thought that there is no international currency as of yet and that this is a motion to turn LOD into the international currency. I changed my vote to "No" as I believe that players should be allowed to ICly determine which country becomes the economic centre of the world.

[Siggon Kristov]

Making the strongest currency be the international currency we would make Terra differ from the real world more and that is desireable.

Ironically, the other people supporting the LOD as the "default and official" international currency think that it makes Terra more like the real world, and that's why they support the LOD.

That seems illogical, USD isn't the strongest currency if I recall correctly.

Exactly. Apparently some players here don't know this.

There is no motion to support. The LOD is already considered to be the international currency of trade. It's just voting Yes/No, and you seem to have voted to keep what is already in place.

Voting "Yes" really means that you think that only the LOD should be allowed to be the international currency, and that you don't want IC events to be able to change that. It's a slap in the face to anyone who puts time and effort into RP and tries to make their own country the financial centre of the world.

Voting "No" means that you think that IC factors should determine the international currency, even if you think it makes IC sense that the LOD is the international currency.

If you want the international currency to be determined by IC/RP factors, and if you genuinely think it makes IC/RP sense for the LOD to be the international currency of trade, you would vote "No" in the poll. Voting "Yes" means that you support an OOC attachment to the LOD, regardless of what happens IC or in RP.

Thanks for clarifying.

No problem.

Again, I'm a new player and I don't know much about the game yet. I thought that there is no international currency as of yet and that this is a motion to turn LOD into the international currency. I changed my vote to "No"

LOD was already the "default and official international currency" under the Economic Protocols that were established by Liu Che. As I've explained, and as you have shown understanding, this is an OOC imposition which has strong IC challenges.

as I believe that players should be allowed to ICly determine which country becomes the economic centre of the world.

Thank you. This doesn't mean that we need to change the values of different currencies in the game. Any currency can become the new official international currency, but the LOD will still be the strongest currency if we use any of the rates given in the game. A particular post shows that a particular player either does not understand this, or deliberately chooses to construct a strawman argument to mislead players about what I am advocating.