Lodamun's Currency

Talk and plan things about the game with other players.

Should the LOD be the "default and official" international currency of Terra?

Yes; it is the strongest currency so it should play that role.
5
25%
No; let roleplay factors determine the importance of currencies.
15
75%
 
Total votes : 20

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby Reddy » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:59 pm

While I understand and accept the reasons against the OOC imposition of the LOD as the 'international currency', I still prefer that the LOD remain as such, if only because I'm wary of RP based determination. Let's face it: RP, let alone financial RP is always near a state of death in Particracy, except for the northern summer time (I think this year's been better than last year though) Plus what's to stop any old country to decide/try to establish itself as the global/regional financial centre with no background or suitability whatsoever much like we occasionally see with regards to military or diplomatic superiority?
To live outside the law, you must be honest.
Reddy
 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:20 am

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby Siggon Kristov » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:01 pm

Reddy wrote:While I understand and accept the reasons against the OOC imposition of the LOD as the 'international currency', I still prefer that the LOD remain as such, if only because I'm wary of RP based determination. Let's face it: RP, let alone financial RP is always near a state of death in Particracy, except for the northern summer time (I think this year's been better than last year though)

"Financial RP" doesn't really demand much, and it doesn't give any power. It' doesn't mean that players can declare new currency values for the static currencies in the game.

Reddy wrote:Plus what's to stop any old country to decide/try to establish itself as the global/regional financial centre with no background or suitability whatsoever much like we occasionally see with regards to military or diplomatic superiority?

What determines whether a country is suitable to be a financial centre or not? They would rely on other countries to recognise them as such, and I think that is the only thing that should matter; it takes a lot of effort to get a treaty (that recognises a particular nation or actively RP'd institution as having some strong importance) passed in multiple nations. A country doesn't need to be an economic power to be a financial centre. That's an unnecessary conflation in my opinion. As for nations unsuitably posing themselves as diplomatically-superior, I again think that is something that is determined by other nations as well. The military thing is an entirely different matter.

Why do we even need to, OOC, establish an official international currency? Why does it matter whether we publish information in LOD or RUT? The rankings would be the same, regardless of which currency we use, as long as we convert everything to a single currency. I just think that it is unrealistic to have an OOC imposition that an IC financial institution in Egelion is obligated to publish information in LOD for no IC reason. Zardugal was a regional power at a point, right? I believe that both it and Solentia banned the LOD at some point. What if there was a financial institution in Zardugal; should it be obligated to quote statistics in LOD? That would mean that it would not be allowed to ban the LOD, which sucks because I think that banning a currency or trying to isolate a country is some cool RP, and it would be unfair to declare a single country as immune to the subject of such IC sanctions.

I don't think we need an official international currency at all. As long as we don't post figures in currencies that contradict their given rates given on the rates page, I think we're fine.
Check out my latest Particracy project, and feel free to discuss it in the forums.
Siggon Kristov
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:35 am

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby albatrosinus » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:45 pm

Hey I have an idea...

Lodamun is interesting because, as it is a "non-cultural democracy" it reflects the trends of the whole Terra.

If Lodamun is so controversial, why wouldn't we choose the only other country without enforced CP - aka Beluzia - as a reference?
Who are you and why are you watching this?
albatrosinus
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 8:12 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby Farsun » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:52 pm

Uh, no? I'd prefer a created reserve currency then a national currency.
Dorvish Social Nationalist Party
OOC Administrator of the Artanian Union & Bureaucrat of the Particracy Wiki
Farsun
 
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:47 pm
Location: New York, United States.

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby J4C0B65 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:20 pm

Who is the best nation in terms of GDP
Classic Particracy

Parti Conservateur Democratique (Lourenne) - Inactive
Parti Conservateur Democratique (Rildanor) - Inactive
Partido Nacional (Gaduridos) - Inactive
National Conservative Party (Beiteynu) - Inactive
J4C0B65
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:58 pm
Location: UK / Rildanor

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby J4C0B65 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:20 pm

Rildanor will have 1 Trillion RCR of GDP per year once my bill passes.

We should use whoever the richest nation is as the Terran Currency. Similarly, IMO Lodamun isn't exactly the most international country in the world, being highly nationalist.
Classic Particracy

Parti Conservateur Democratique (Lourenne) - Inactive
Parti Conservateur Democratique (Rildanor) - Inactive
Partido Nacional (Gaduridos) - Inactive
National Conservative Party (Beiteynu) - Inactive
J4C0B65
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:58 pm
Location: UK / Rildanor

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby Reddy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:09 am

Siggon Kristov wrote:"Financial RP" doesn't really demand much, and it doesn't give any power.

I doubt that, it would give economic power at least which in the right hands can be as devastating as military power. Some of the US's domestic financial policies hurt many other countries which don't even use the Dollar as their currency.

Siggon Kristov wrote:What determines whether a country is suitable to be a financial centre or not? They would rely on other countries to recognise them as such, and I think that is the only thing that should matter; it takes a lot of effort to get a treaty (that recognises a particular nation or actively RP'd institution as having some strong importance) passed in multiple nations.


Not really, people in PT seem to compulsively sign on to any Treaty if they get those spam like messages to their nation message boards. I've seen some rubbish treaties ratified by many people, some of them barely made any sense at all. I could prove it to you by copying the Egelion treaty and spamming everyone to sign it. It would probably get 10 or 20 ratifications. I doubt most people read treaties carefully before signing them.

Another thing, what's to stop Egelion being hit by sanctions either? As I remember, most of these sanctions are imposed against RP rules IMO. I remember being hit by sanctions once without any prior consultations from the imposing nations.

Siggon Kristov wrote:A country doesn't need to be an economic power to be a financial centre. That's an unnecessary conflation in my opinion.

Perhaps you are right, yet most of the top financial centres are situated in economic powers... And if you believe what you said, then there's no reason for repeatedly sanctioned Lodamun to lose its established status as the premier financial centre in Terra.

Siggon Kristov wrote:Why do we even need to, OOC, establish an official international currency? Why does it matter whether we publish information in LOD or RUT? The rankings would be the same, regardless of which currency we use, as long as we convert everything to a single currency.


I suppose we need an international currency for the same reason international trade is mostly conducted in the almighty Dollar. I don't know enough about economics/finance to be able to fully explain why. I think for RP purposes certainly, it would be easier to have one international currency in which figures are stated, if I quoted figures in the Deltarian Telar for example, it would end up looking like we have a huge economy, given that 1 LOD is equivalent to 20 Telars. A 500 billion Telar arms deal would end up sounding like some kind of power play because no one is going to check out the currency rates, they would likely just assume that it's something roughly equivalent to the LOD or even the US$.

All that said, I agree that it would be better to have a created reserve currency as Farsun stated which I think should have a fixed value, immune to 'roleplay determination'. If not, could we please just keep the LOD for simplicity's sake ?
To live outside the law, you must be honest.
Reddy
 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:20 am

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby Siggon Kristov » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:37 am

Reddy wrote:
Siggon Kristov wrote:"Financial RP" doesn't really demand much, and it doesn't give any power.

I doubt that, it would give economic power at least which in the right hands can be as devastating as military power. Some of the US's domestic financial policies hurt many other countries which don't even use the Dollar as their currency.

I'm talking about financial RP in the context of RP-ing a financial institution that publishes statistics. It doesn't give any power, and players won't be allowed to change the rates that are already stated on the rates page.

Reddy wrote:
Siggon Kristov wrote:What determines whether a country is suitable to be a financial centre or not? They would rely on other countries to recognise them as such, and I think that is the only thing that should matter; it takes a lot of effort to get a treaty (that recognises a particular nation or actively RP'd institution as having some strong importance) passed in multiple nations.

Not really, people in PT seem to compulsively sign on to any Treaty if they get those spam like messages to their nation message boards. I've seen some rubbish treaties ratified by many people, some of them barely made any sense at all. I could prove it to you by copying the Egelion treaty and spamming everyone to sign it. It would probably get 10 or 20 ratifications. I doubt most people read treaties carefully before signing them.

I never got the KFS treaty to reach 30 nations. I got it to enough very active nations, but at some points it became politically controversial. Some parties would be pro-KFS or anti-KFS, and support or oppose the treaty based on their relations with Beluzia, the Karavs, Solentia, Zardugal, etc.

Reddy wrote:Another thing, what's to stop Egelion being hit by sanctions either?

I never said Egelion couldn't be hit by sanctions. I'm not getting what point you're making, here. I'm not saying that Egelion should be the default and official financial centre of Terra.

Reddy wrote:
Siggon Kristov wrote:A country doesn't need to be an economic power to be a financial centre. That's an unnecessary conflation in my opinion.

Perhaps you are right, yet most of the top financial centres are situated in economic powers... And if you believe what you said, then there's no reason for repeatedly sanctioned Lodamun to lose its established status as the premier financial centre in Terra.

Firstly... Did RP establish this status, or an OOC imposition which currently makes no sense IC?
Secondly... yes, it would lose that status because people would ignore what financial institutions in Lodamun have to say. I'm not talking about whether Lodamun is an economic power or not. Lodamun's economy has remained in the top 5 for centuries, without being in debt. The point is that its currency hasn't been popular. Its government and its institutions have not been popular, either.

Reddy wrote:
Siggon Kristov wrote:Why do we even need to, OOC, establish an official international currency? Why does it matter whether we publish information in LOD or RUT? The rankings would be the same, regardless of which currency we use, as long as we convert everything to a single currency.

I suppose we need an international currency for the same reason international trade is mostly conducted in the almighty Dollar.

I'm not asking why we need an international currency. I'm asking why we need to keep a specific currency as the permanent/official international currency. I am not saying that the LOD should or should not be the international currency; I am saying that there should be nothing dictating that its status is permanent. I remember being in Beluzia and starting RP for the Karav Financial Services, which was widely recognised. I put a lot of effort into the spreadsheets, and I wanted to publish statistics in BEL because I wanted to incorporate the spreadsheets into my RP of the financial institution. I was told by at least 2 players that I'm obligated to do it in LOD instead, and that I'm breaking rules otherwise. Does this make much sense? This is the source of my problem with the OOC imposition.

Reddy wrote:I don't know enough about economics/finance to be able to fully explain why.

By the way, the US Dollar in the real world is not the strongest currency in the real world, so painting it as a parallel to the LOD is something that I don't see the point of.

Reddy wrote:I think for RP purposes certainly, it would be easier to have one international currency in which figures are stated, if I quoted figures in the Deltarian Telar for example, it would end up looking like we have a huge economy, given that 1 LOD is equivalent to 20 Telars. A 500 billion Telar arms deal would end up sounding like some kind of power play because no one is going to check out the currency rates, they would likely just assume that it's something roughly equivalent to the LOD or even the US$.

I get your point here, but the LOD isn't the only currency that can be used to avoid ridiculous figures. Rutania's currency, and even Beluzia's currency, could be used without getting extremely large numbers. Also, you're talking about a case of individual news posts where nations would use their own currency when talking about their budgets and stuff.

I'm talking about the publication of comparative statistics. If a country's GDP is 10 times bigger than another country in LOD, it's going to be the same in any other currency in the game. Also, if a financial institution was actively RP'd, and published statistics in BEL, what's wrong with people using BEL when they wanted to give others an idea of the worth of an arms deal or something?

Reddy wrote:
Farsun wrote:Uh, no? I'd prefer a created reserve currency then a national currency.

All that said, I agree that it would be better to have a created reserve currency as Farsun stated which I think should have a fixed value, immune to 'roleplay determination'.

This is a silly suggestion that takes even more work for people who don't use my spreadsheets. They would have to convert everything to a currency, say the LOD, then convert it to this new currency. The only point in adding a currency in addition to the game's static currencies is to have a dynamic currency like the KRV. Otherwise, it's just an extra conversion process that adds no value.

Reddy wrote:If not, could we please just keep the LOD for simplicity's sake ?

Does it really matter what we publish statistics in? Do we really need to "keep" any one currency as the permanent official international currency? What does it matter whether I publish information in BEL or LOD? Wouldn't the rankings and relative values be the same? I really don't get what it simplifies or doesn't simplify. I still haven't been convinced of the necessity of the OOC imposition that the LOD must be the official international currency.

--

I want to make clear what we're discussing here. Voting "Yes" means that you think it should be against the rules for a player to set up an IC financial institution and publish statistics in a currency of his/her choice.

--

albatrosinus wrote:Lodamun is interesting because, as it is a "non-cultural democracy" it reflects the trends of the whole Terra.
If Lodamun is so controversial, why wouldn't we choose the only other country without enforced CP - aka Beluzia - as a reference?

I was in Beluzia, and I built a reputable IC institution. Originally, my spreadsheets were supposed to publish information in BEL only. I was told that this was against the rules, so I moved to Lodamun to give the spreadsheets more worth to the game.

Anyway, Lodamun's position as the financial centre has nothing to do with in-character stuff. It's not about Lodamun being too controversial; I'm the guy who made this thread and raised this issue, and I'm the same guy who has made Lodamun controversial. This is not a discussion about which country should be the financial centre of the world; it's a discussion about whether:
a) Lodamun should have this status protected by the game's rules
b) Any country (including Lodamun) may get this status if enough players/characters recognise it at a given time

J4C0B65 wrote:
J4C0B65 wrote:Who is the best nation in terms of GDP
Rildanor will have 1 Trillion RCR of GDP per year once my bill passes.
We should use whoever the richest nation is as the Terran Currency.

This doesn't make any sense. It means that the financial centre could change every month.
Are the players in Rildanor prepared to take on the responsibilities of being the financial centre? If a country has the highest GDP, does it automatically mean that its players are prepared to take on this responsibility?
Check out my latest Particracy project, and feel free to discuss it in the forums.
Siggon Kristov
 
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:35 am

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby Reddy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:05 am

Siggon Kristov wrote:I'm talking about financial RP in the context of RP-ing a financial institution that publishes statistics. It doesn't give any power, and players won't be allowed to change the rates that are already stated on the rates page.

Fair enough, if it is RPed like that.


Siggon Kristov wrote:I never said Egelion couldn't be hit by sanctions. I'm not getting what point you're making, here. I'm not saying that Egelion should be the default and official financial centre of Terra.


I was following your apparent thoughts on this. You've suggested or at least agreed to the idea that Lodamun cannot be the premier financial centre anymore because it's been hit by sanctions repeatedly. And of course, some new players will show up and the number of countries which have ratified the Egelion treaty may fall. If we rely on RP or realism here, the system will be just chaotic.

Siggon Kristov wrote:Firstly... Did RP establish this status, or an OOC imposition which currently makes no sense IC?
Secondly... yes, it would lose that status because people would ignore what financial institutions in Lodamun have to say. I'm not talking about whether Lodamun is an economic power or not. Lodamun's economy has remained in the top 5 for centuries, without being in debt. The point is that its currency hasn't been popular. Its government and its institutions have not been popular, either.


To be honest, I don't know how it was established however a number of longtime players have told me in the past that Lodamun is (financially) the in-game equivalent of the USA. Now a lot of things in the game are based on what the RL equivalent is. For example, defence industries, religion and natural resources like oil. Why would that not apply to economics/finances?

Siggon Kristov wrote:I was told by at least 2 players that I'm obligated to do it in LOD instead, and that I'm breaking rules otherwise. Does this make much sense? This is the source of my problem with the OOC imposition.


Yes, it makes no sense but still it would be better to have one recognised international currency. This would'should not mean that anyone would be restricted in quoting anything in the Telar, Dolgar, Rupee if they want to.

Reddy wrote:I don't know enough about economics/finance to be able to fully explain why.

Siggon Kristov wrote:By the way, the US Dollar in the real world is not the strongest currency in the real world, so painting it as a parallel to the LOD is something that I don't see the point of.


I know that (it's not my reason for supporting the LOD to remain considered as the official international currency) and I also know that it is the dominant currency in international financial transactions and recognised as such. That's the point I was trying to make. There has always been dominant currencies in the world used for global financial transactions and such. I'm just saying that I prefer that it remains the LOD because I'm used to it. There's no reason why other currencies can't be used, but LOD supremacy should probably continue to be recognised not because of its strength.

Reddy wrote:If not, could we please just keep the LOD for simplicity's sake ?

Siggon Kristov wrote:Does it really matter what we publish statistics in? Do we really need to "keep" any one currency as the permanent official international currency? What does it matter whether I publish information in BEL or LOD? Wouldn't the rankings and relative values be the same? I really don't get what it simplifies or doesn't simplify. I still haven't been convinced of the necessity of the OOC imposition that the LOD must be the official international currency.


I meant to say convenience (and familiarity) not simplicity. My bad that's what comes from having English as a third language. :oops: The convenience here is for quoting figures in RP whether it's forum posts or lists on the wiki. I think it kind of matters that we publish in the same currency as I pointed earlier with the 500 billion Telar example. As far as I'm aware, players (who bother) largely quote figures in the LOD. Perhaps it's unrealistic, but God knows it's only one of dozens of things that are unrealistic in PT and in my view, much less so than having to asking for someone's consent before invading them, or that we've had the same superpowers forever etc.

You might as well provide more options to your poll (if that's possible) I support LOD supremacy not because of its strength.
Last edited by Reddy on Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
To live outside the law, you must be honest.
Reddy
 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:20 am

Re: Lodamun's Currency

Postby albatrosinus » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:08 am

Well, it is absurd to have it fixed to a single country. IRL the USD is now recognized as a "world currency" but this was not always the case, and maybe tomorrow the world-leading currency might be the yuan, the ruble, the South Korean won, the Brazilian real, the Swedish crown, the Angolan kwanza or whatever...

I think that if the players consider the Hobrazian Crown, the Beluz or the Dundorfian Mark to be the world money, there should be no problem with that.
Who are you and why are you watching this?
albatrosinus
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 8:12 pm
Location: FRANCE

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests