Returning to the Game

[TheNewGuy]

So, I'm legitimately glad that you're recovering. I was saddened to hear that you were ill and I'm happy to hear that you're doing better. I also am glad to have you back as a member of this community. I do think, however, that we ought to have a discussion about your positions as a Moderator, now.

Even before your recent absence, you struggled to find time to complete the routine activities required of a Mod. Now, returned for six days, you've reactivated one party and you've responded to a Cultural Protocol request in a manner so vague as to cause confusion for the player who made the request. I'm not entirely opposed to your staying on as a Moderator, but in total honesty, I've more and more grown to question why you want to stay on, at all.

Frankly, I need to see more from you, I need a commitment to renewed vigor if I'm going to be convinced that you staying as Mod is a good thing. Aquinas has set the bar ridiculously high for you now, and we've done, in my opinion, better under his leadership than we did under my own, under Farsun's, and under yours. As I've made clear elsewhere, I feel that Aquinas' respect for you (well-founded and well-intentioned as it is) is a hindrance to him and his ability to move Particracy forward. I do not feel that you are active enough (we cannot see the Moderator forum, so all we mere mortals have to go on is your action in the main forum areas) to warrant the title of Moderator - and especially not of "Senior" Moderator - anymore. You have not played this game in years, now. You are an adult with a full time job and health concerns. I also feel that PT would be well served by a Moderation team with multiple timezone coverage (e.g. an Asia-based Mod or an American Mod) to cover the gaps. I worry that your "return" is actually the return of a ghost, and that, I think, would be a shame given your previous ability and given the potential that the game's recent renewal of activity seems to represent.

So, if you're willing, I hope that you might either offer us an assurance that you're going to be more active, more transparent, and perhaps willing to symbolically recognize Aquinas as the "Senior Mod," or else, with respect, that you might consider removing yourself from the position. I hope that you do not take this personally, and I hope, Aquinas, that you aren't too horrified by me speaking frankly, but know that I write this with care for the friends I've made in PT in many years here, both Aquinas and Amaz counted among them.

EDIT: Fixed some spelling/typing errors.

EDIT2: Confirmed drunk while posting, in the greatest of PT traditions. Roughly 75% sure I'll stand by this when I sober up though, so take that for what it's worth.

[Siggon Kristov]

I do think, however, that we ought to have a discussion about your positions as a Moderator, now.

Not going to lie, I wanted this "discussion" a long time ago. The reason that you and Farsun were appointed in the first place was this whole thing happening. Amazeroth would go inactive for days at a time.

I was the main person calling him out at that time, and I was the main person calling him out the last time he went inactive (when Aquinas was appointed).

Even before your recent absence, you struggled to find time to complete the routine activities required of a Mod. Now, returned for six days, you've reactivated one party and you've responded to a Cultural Protocol request in a manner so vague as to cause confusion for the player who made the request. I'm not entirely opposed to your staying on as a Moderator, but in total honesty, I've more and more grown to question why you want to stay on, at all.

This has always boggled my mind as well. I don't see what Amazeroth gets from staying here, and he isn't giving much.

I'm not going to lie; his insight and rulings on certain issues were things I hailed, and they have set good precedent for how I expect RP to be handled in the future. Notably, his remarks on maintaining realism in Beluzia (when we had that complex system there) was something that we should all appreciate. I can't be the only player who was annoyed by the fact that any RP needed consent from ALL players at all times for it to be valid. In the past, RP was invalidated as soon as 1 player withdrew consent, and it made things awkward.

So I'm definitely not saying that Amazeroth has never contributed anything. He has contributed a lot, and I strongly doubt that I am the only player here who believes that he is usually reasonable, and sometimes rather lenient, when handling game-related issues. Still, this is all in the past. Moderation duties are not some noble title or ceremonial award that should represent one's contribution to the community. Moderation duties are responsibilities, and surely we can all admit what Amazeroth has done for this community as a moderator, without having him remain a moderator. Currently, I don't see him fulfilling Moderation duties all that well.

Frankly, I need to see more from you, I need a commitment to renewed vigor if I'm going to be convinced that you staying as Mod is a good thing. Aquinas has set the bar ridiculously high for you now, and we've done, in my opinion, better under his leadership than we did under my own, under Farsun's, and under yours.

I have to agree, here.

As I've made clear elsewhere, I feel that Aquinas' respect for you (well-founded and well-intentioned as it is) is a hindrance to him and his ability to move Particracy forward. I do not feel that you are active enough (we cannot see the Moderator forum, so all we mere mortals have to go on is your action in the main forum areas) to warrant the title of Moderator - and especially not of "Senior" Moderator - anymore. You have not played this game in years, now.

I disagree that Aquinas' respect for Amazeroth is a hindrance. I think it's how Aquinas shows this respect that could be a hindrance. We must understand, however, that Aquinas is a new mod and he has been very active, constantly doing things. He has pushed a few buttons (including mine), I'm sure. Any decent person in his position would want to know how appropriate his actions and decisions have been, from the point of view of someone more experienced. I agree that Amazeroth is not active enough, but Moderation isn't only about routine tasks. There are routine tasks, and there is conflict resolution. Sometimes Aquinas may want someone to consult on the conflict resolution aspect, especially if Aquinas intends to continue playing the game where he may end up getting into conflicts of his own. It's always good to have a second opinion on conflict resolution. With Aquinas being as active as he is, Amazeroth does not need to be very active. I don't think that logging in once every 8-12 days is enough, but I wouldn't see much of a problem if he still logged in every 2-5 days.

Amazeroth could very well remain Senior Moderator, because he is truly senior in the sense of experience, but I don't think that having a Senior Moderator is necessary at all.

You are an adult with a full time job and health concerns.

He has Christianity and Capitalism to fix his health problems, so I'm not too worried about him there.

I also feel that PT would be well served by a Moderation team with multiple timezone coverage (e.g. an Asia-based Mod or an American Mod) to cover the gaps. I worry that your "return" is actually the return of a ghost, and that, I think, would be a shame given your previous ability and given the potential that the game's recent renewal of activity seems to represent.

I agree with this sentiment.

So, if you're willing, I hope that you might either offer us an assurance that you're going to be more active, more transparent,

I agree with this. He doesn't need to be super active, but a little more active than he was for the past 2-3 years would be nice.

[Aquinas]

I do not have as much time to respond as I would like at the moment, but I will say that I am personally very saddened that TheNewGuy has decided to come out with some of the statements that he has.

As explained previously, there is no "Senior Moderator" position. Even if I and/or Amazeroth wanted to create such a position, we would not be able to do something like that without Wouter. And at least so far as I am aware, Wouter has never created such a position.

Over the last month or so, Amazeroth has contributed a great deal to Particracy's Moderation behind the scenes, advising/consulting me on dealing with issues. Even whilst he was ill, indeed even whilst he was actually still in hospital, he had email contact with me - and that was invaluable to me at the time. I assure you all that I have been keeping him busy asking him about things and talking about things. The idea that he contributes inadequately to Moderation work simply is not true. It would be true, though, to say that at least at the moment, in general terms, I probably have more time to devote to Particracy than he does, which means I am more obviously visible. eg. more often being the first Moderator to respond to a request. That absolutely does not mean, however, that he is not an essential part of this team.

It is true that in the lead-up to his illness, Amazeroth went through a period when he was not able to log in to Particracy as often as he would have wanted to. Let me say, though - and I can see this for myself, because I have access to the records - that some of the claims that have been made about his absence periods are wide of the mark.

Amazeroth knows this game inside out, perhaps more than anybody else here. He is helping me with all sorts of things right now at the moment. I need him. And although some of you might not immediately see it, you guys need him too. If we lost him now, this game would be much, much, much the poorer for it.

[Amazeroth]

Zanz - seeing that you posted drunk, I'll wait and see which of the stuff you said wasn't among the 75% you really meant.

However, since a non-drunk post was made as well:

I do think, however, that we ought to have a discussion about your positions as a Moderator, now.

Not going to lie, I wanted this "discussion" a long time ago. The reason that you and Farsun were appointed in the first place was this whole thing happening. Amazeroth would go inactive for days at a time.

That is at least halfway factually wrong. The first time I went inactive "for days at a time" was after Farsun's appointment, around Easter of that year (I think 2013, but I'm not entirely sure). That was because I went on holiday and thought that with a new moderator appointed, I could take a few days off. Sadly, Farsun was occupied at that time as well, so there was a five day period of inactivity. Afterwards, in order to not have that happen again, both better communication between mods was introduced, and Zanz was appointed.

Until my sickness, the longest period of inactivity, to my best recollection, was three days, and that about three times - which I apologised for in the first post on this thread. However, the work that had made it difficult for me to log in every day is now gone.

Even before your recent absence, you struggled to find time to complete the routine activities required of a Mod. Now, returned for six days, you've reactivated one party and you've responded to a Cultural Protocol request in a manner so vague as to cause confusion for the player who made the request. I'm not entirely opposed to your staying on as a Moderator, but in total honesty, I've more and more grown to question why you want to stay on, at all.

This has always boggled my mind as well. I don't see what Amazeroth gets from staying here, and he isn't giving much.

First - it's true that on the moderation thread I have only done two things, however that's not because I haven't been here enough (so far I've logged in at least once every day since my return), but because Aquinas is that good a mod that I only ever found these two requests unanswered - all the other times, Aquinas had gotten to them first.

For the rest - what I get from staying here is that I like this community very much, and that I like moderating the game. I also still like the game as well, the reason that I didn't play for years now is not because I wouldn't want to, but I found that it was beneficial not to play in order not to get biased.

As for me not giving much - I've given at least as much as moderators of this game always did - which is the routine stuff, as well as dealing with arguments, problematic players, and developing the rules. If you check the line of moderators before me, that's what moderators did; as well as the moderators I've worked with. Moderators have never, in this game, had the role of torch-bearers, that was always left to the dedication of the players as a whole. There have been a few exceptions, mainly the cultural protocols and the rules I set in place after the Pax Cynica was deleted. However, just like now the larger projects are made by players, whether that's Siggon finding new systems to govern the countries, Polites creating and improving new cultures, or Farsun's OTAF, the large projects in the past were player-made as well - first and foremost perhaps the Rildanor Accords, which was only afterwards picked up to be enforced by moderation.

That said, it's not like I'm going to do nothing else than routine moderation work of course.

I'm not going to lie; his insight and rulings on certain issues were things I hailed, and they have set good precedent for how I expect RP to be handled in the future. Notably, his remarks on maintaining realism in Beluzia (when we had that complex system there) was something that we should all appreciate. I can't be the only player who was annoyed by the fact that any RP needed consent from ALL players at all times for it to be valid. In the past, RP was invalidated as soon as 1 player withdrew consent, and it made things awkward.

So I'm definitely not saying that Amazeroth has never contributed anything. He has contributed a lot, and I strongly doubt that I am the only player here who believes that he is usually reasonable, and sometimes rather lenient, when handling game-related issues. Still, this is all in the past. Moderation duties are not some noble title or ceremonial award that should represent one's contribution to the community. Moderation duties are responsibilities, and surely we can all admit what Amazeroth has done for this community as a moderator, without having him remain a moderator. Currently, I don't see him fulfilling Moderation duties all that well.

I absolutely agree that being a Moderator is not a title, but instead should be if anything conincidental with contributions to the community. It should be about realiability, clear-sightedness, and an ability to work with sometimes complicated people. And while I've been less than optimally active before my sickness (and not at all during, but I think I might be excused for that), I think I've proven that I have these requirements. And, again, if you don't see me fulfilling moderation duties all that well currently, it's because I've been, much to his credit, of course, outdone by Aquinas.

Frankly, I need to see more from you, I need a commitment to renewed vigor if I'm going to be convinced that you staying as Mod is a good thing. Aquinas has set the bar ridiculously high for you now, and we've done, in my opinion, better under his leadership than we did under my own, under Farsun's, and under yours.

I have to agree, here.

Me to. If there's anything we can agree on, it's that Aquinas has brought a new level of commitment to moderating that I haven't seen from any moderator before, myself included.

As I've made clear elsewhere, I feel that Aquinas' respect for you (well-founded and well-intentioned as it is) is a hindrance to him and his ability to move Particracy forward. I do not feel that you are active enough (we cannot see the Moderator forum, so all we mere mortals have to go on is your action in the main forum areas) to warrant the title of Moderator - and especially not of "Senior" Moderator - anymore. You have not played this game in years, now.

I disagree that Aquinas' respect for Amazeroth is a hindrance. I think it's how Aquinas shows this respect that could be a hindrance. We must understand, however, that Aquinas is a new mod and he has been very active, constantly doing things. He has pushed a few buttons (including mine), I'm sure. Any decent person in his position would want to know how appropriate his actions and decisions have been, from the point of view of someone more experienced. I agree that Amazeroth is not active enough, but Moderation isn't only about routine tasks. There are routine tasks, and there is conflict resolution. Sometimes Aquinas may want someone to consult on the conflict resolution aspect, especially if Aquinas intends to continue playing the game where he may end up getting into conflicts of his own. It's always good to have a second opinion on conflict resolution. With Aquinas being as active as he is, Amazeroth does not need to be very active. I don't think that logging in once every 8-12 days is enough, but I wouldn't see much of a problem if he still logged in every 2-5 days.

Amazeroth could very well remain Senior Moderator, because he is truly senior in the sense of experience, but I don't think that having a Senior Moderator is necessary at all.

Since that has come up a number of times now, and that despite Aquinas having answered that already, I'll say it too: There is no Senior Moderator position, and there never has been. The only time I've ever encountered something akin to that was when Darvian still was a mod, and even then it was informal at best. I've never designated myself that way, and I never tried to give the impression that I considered myself senior or in any other way above fellow moderators. Not now, not with Zanz and Farsun. If I gave that impression, I'm sorry and it was not something I wanted to do - but if you were to look up old conversations, I'm entirely certain that I never asserted myself any authority over fellow mods. And I'm not going to start that now either.

You are an adult with a full time job and health concerns.

He has Christianity and Capitalism to fix his health problems, so I'm not too worried about him there.

Luckily (well, not so luckily for me, maybe), I don't have a full time job, and luckily too, I don't have health concerns as well. My sickness came from an infection that was very unlikely to occur in the first place, but I just had the bad luck of becoming one of the 2% or so of Austrians to have had it. And even with a normal full time job I'd have no problems accessing particracy daily.

I also feel that PT would be well served by a Moderation team with multiple timezone coverage (e.g. an Asia-based Mod or an American Mod) to cover the gaps. I worry that your "return" is actually the return of a ghost, and that, I think, would be a shame given your previous ability and given the potential that the game's recent renewal of activity seems to represent.

I agree with this sentiment.

While it would be more convenient to have multiple timezone coverage (if you're not counting the 1-2 zones Aquinas and I are apart), mod recruitment will probably never be based on that. Mostly because the personality of the mod is far more important, and there's no reason to have moderation around the clock for a 180-220 players free-to-play game.

So, if you're willing, I hope that you might either offer us an assurance that you're going to be more active, more transparent,

I agree with this. He doesn't need to be super active, but a little more active than he was for the past 2-3 years would be nice.

2-3 years might be rather exaggerated, but more than the last half year - certainly. So far I don't think I've ever been intransparent, but correct me if I'm wrong there.

[TheNewGuy]

I will say that I am personally very saddened that TheNewGuy has decided to come out with some of the statements that he has.

I'm sorry to hear that, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with discussing this, and I was just presenting facts as I see them. I'm very open to counter-argument, and you've both offered some. For the record, I still stand by my post now, 100% sober.

As explained previously, there is no "Senior Moderator" position. Even if I and/or Amazeroth wanted to create such a position, we would not be able to do something like that without Wouter. And at least so far as I am aware, Wouter has never created such a position.

It's not an official position, but it's an understood position, as recently implied by Reddy, and as directly implied to myself and Farsun during our dealings with Amazeroth. I cannot (and likely would not) link directly to the places in the Mod forum where Amazeroth intimated that in the final analysis what he said went, even if both Farsun and myself stood opposed, but it was certainly an implication that I felt clearly, and that I felt was a detriment to our ability to make positive change to the game. It was clear that Amazeroth held the power of the veto, and I'm asking him to openly renounce that power here, and I'm asking you to not grant him that power, even if by nothing more than a side effect of your (maddeningly-Aquinas-like) respect for him, if we're going to move forward. My essential argument here is that you should absolutely feel 100% empowered to rule on things like Cultural Protocols without seeking Amazeroth's input, for several reasons: because for years he has done the same on his own, because you're active and he's not, and any time you wait for him you bottleneck the process, and because you've shown yourself to be capable of dealing with these issues on your own. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't ask him for advice. I'm saying you need to be willing to pull the trigger and make a call if he's gone, or even if he's here and disagrees with you, and I'm saying that if his status as your senior (in tenure alone, if you like) makes you hesitate, then he should do us a favor and remove himself, because you are the future and he is the past.

Over the last month or so, Amazeroth has contributed a great deal to Particracy's Moderation behind the scenes, advising/consulting me on dealing with issues. Even whilst he was ill, indeed even whilst he was actually still in hospital, he had email contact with me - and that was invaluable to me at the time. I assure you all that I have been keeping him busy asking him about things and talking about things. The idea that he contributes inadequately to Moderation work simply is not true.

Myself, Liu Che, and Farsun have all also helped you "behind the scenes." None of us is or any longer wants to be a moderator. Amazeroth could easily (and should) fulfill this same role for you whether he is a moderator or not, as should all former moderators. Darvian and IdioC both advised me as a moderator despite the fact that neither of them was active on the game at the time. What I am saying is that in performing the actual duties of a moderator, Amazeroth has not been up to the level of activity that I think he ought to be for some time. Literally anyone can offer you advice. Who you choose to seek advice from is your business, and I am sure Amazeroth is very helpful in that account. But if he's not going to be active enough to inactivate parties that pass the mark until days, election cycles later (a circumstance we saw often during his lone tenure), if he's not going to be descriptive in his interaction with new players who are working to learn the rules, if he's not actively posting where we can see him doing his job, then he's not being a good moderator. I'm asking him either to recommit to being a good moderator (he was once one of PT's best all time), or to relieve himself to allow fresher blood in.

Amazeroth knows this game inside out, perhaps more than anybody else here. He is helping me with all sorts of things right now at the moment. I need him. And although some of you might not immediately see it, you guys need him too. If we lost him now, this game would be much, much, much the poorer for it.

He knows the mechanics inside out. Yes. Better than anyone. Yes. He taught me, he taught Farsun, and either he or Liu or I, or you have taught you. But I do not believe that it is fair to say that he knows this community as well as some, anymore. This is the center point of my concern. Amazeroth served us well for quite some time, perhaps longer than any moderator. But he has in the recent past been at the center of significant intrigue that has not done good for this game (Reiko/Valdstejn debacle, his handling of Farsun and myself [to a lesser extent], etc.) Worse, he has several times neglected to find himself the assistance he needed to make Particracy's mod team decent again, and we've twice been left with essentially no mod team for a period of days (and weeks, recently).

Only partly tongue in cheek, he picked me and Farsun. That alone should be a black mark on his record

NOW TO AMAZEROTH:

I haven't got much of your post to directly respond to as you didn't directly respond to me due to my inebriation. From hereforth, have at me, I'm sober.

First - it's true that on the moderation thread I have only done two things, however that's not because I haven't been here enough (so far I've logged in at least once every day since my return), but because Aquinas is that good a mod that I only ever found these two requests unanswered - all the other times, Aquinas had gotten to them first.

Fair enough, but this is sort of what I mean. Aquinas has a fresh vigor for the position (I know how it is, I had a similar moderator style when I started). You logging in once a day is an improvement, and I hope that it continues, but I absolutely need it to continue if you're going to continue on as moderator. I just haven't got much patience anymore for your relatively sporadic activity. Most times it's fine, but in the times when it's not, it's a major pain point for people who have inactives that get up to 10 days and hog seats for multiple elections, etc.

For the rest - what I get from staying here is that I like this community very much, and that I like moderating the game. I also still like the game as well, the reason that I didn't play for years now is not because I wouldn't want to, but I found that it was beneficial not to play in order not to get biased.

Again, fair enough, you enjoy moderating. I'm not here to tell you that you don't. I will tell you I have absolutely no idea why you do. And it is my personal opinion that your gravity as a figure in this community (and particularly with Aquinas, who has become an important part of the community) is perhaps greater than you understand. I simply would like you to understand the amount of damage that you are able to do if you are not judicious in your use of influence, particularly now without the openly opposed Farsun to counterbalance you.

As for me not giving much - I've given at least as much as moderators of this game always did - which is the routine stuff, as well as dealing with arguments, problematic players, and developing the rules.

To set the record straight: I absolutely believe that you have given as much as most moderators have given to this game. I am simply concerned that in the past while you have not given as much as you did, and that if we will not see similar activity from you now then I hope you will understand that I am concerned for your legacy. If you were American, I'd compare you to Brett Favre. I don't know if there's instances in European football of people who've stayed beyond their prime and regretted it.

Moderators have never, in this game, had the role of torch-bearers, that was always left to the dedication of the players as a whole.

Yes and no. Darvian certainly was a torch bearer. Unisocall was a torch bearer. Liu still is. All three of them did tremendous work to destroy the colonies, and nothing has more changed the IC landscape of this game than them (if you'd have told me Luthori would be a no-name country before Darvian did his work, or you told me that Hulstria would be Asian themed a few years ago, I'd have laughed you out of the room). Each of them was involved in that as part of their tenure as moderators. I can tell you right now that if Farsun and I were unchained from you during our tenure we would (like it or not) have been a very active moderation team ICly. Even Aquinas has been remarkably active (think JohnJohn in Selucia, etc.) I'd argue that you are the anomaly, and it's likely why you've not been run out (like lots of mods) over so long - you haven't stepped on toes because you've been reluctant to step at all.

Most of the rest of your post I think I've addressed above. If there's anything you want me specifically to address, please let me know. Again, I'd like to stress, even if you don't believe it, that I hold no ill will toward Amazeroth. This is just stuff I've been sitting on for some time.

EDIT: One piece that perhaps will seem a bit petty but that just irked me a bit in your last post is your timeline... I became moderator in April 2013. Two years ago. You had already been relatively periodically inactive prior to then. Siggon's timeline is more accurate. We're talking a matter of years here, not of months.

[Amazeroth]

First - it's true that on the moderation thread I have only done two things, however that's not because I haven't been here enough (so far I've logged in at least once every day since my return), but because Aquinas is that good a mod that I only ever found these two requests unanswered - all the other times, Aquinas had gotten to them first.

Fair enough, but this is sort of what I mean. Aquinas has a fresh vigor for the position (I know how it is, I had a similar moderator style when I started). You logging in once a day is an improvement, and I hope that it continues, but I absolutely need it to continue if you're going to continue on as moderator. I just haven't got much patience anymore for your relatively sporadic activity. Most times it's fine, but in the times when it's not, it's a major pain point for people who have inactives that get up to 10 days and hog seats for multiple elections, etc.

Actually, now that there are two moderators, I'd even have more reason not to log on every day - since that's kind of the point. Not that I plan to. But I've spoken twice now about my future committment to the game, as well as my activity, so I'm sure you don't need to hear it a third time.
Btw., and I mean that in the nicest way possible, because I don't want to offend you - but I won't base my activities as moderator on the question whether it's something you (or any other individual player) needs me to do anything. No moderator will - not because your opinion doesn't count, but because nothing could be done if everything had to be according to the will of every single player.

For the rest - what I get from staying here is that I like this community very much, and that I like moderating the game. I also still like the game as well, the reason that I didn't play for years now is not because I wouldn't want to, but I found that it was beneficial not to play in order not to get biased.

Again, fair enough, you enjoy moderating. I'm not here to tell you that you don't. I will tell you I have absolutely no idea why you do. And it is my personal opinion that your gravity as a figure in this community (and particularly with Aquinas, who has become an important part of the community) is perhaps greater than you understand. I simply would like you to understand the amount of damage that you are able to do if you are not judicious in your use of influence, particularly now without the openly opposed Farsun to counterbalance you.

Let me ask then, why did you want to be a moderator? While I don't hold it against you - since, as I said, I don't see it as the necessary role of a moderator - there was nothing you instigated to change or better the game. Literally every discussion of new laws to implement, or the regulation and enforcement of the cultural protocols, was instigated by me or Farsun, with you chiming in occasionally. I must admit that I have no idea what you might have talked about with Farsun only and not on the forum, but if there was anything you didn't even bring it to the table.

Also, when, and I am really asking, have I not been judicious in my use of influence? I have been very careful in the past, especially because I know how much influence I have (although I attribute that to being a moderator, not because I was in any way special as a person). With everything I did while you were a moderator I asked about your opinion, and when you didn't like it I didn't do it.

As for me not giving much - I've given at least as much as moderators of this game always did - which is the routine stuff, as well as dealing with arguments, problematic players, and developing the rules.

To set the record straight: I absolutely believe that you have given as much as most moderators have given to this game. I am simply concerned that in the past while you have not given as much as you did, and that if we will not see similar activity from you now then I hope you will understand that I am concerned for your legacy. If you were American, I'd compare you to Brett Favre. I don't know if there's instances in European football of people who've stayed beyond their prime and regretted it.

I understand your concern, although, as I am realising only myself now, that was mostly because I was the only moderator. In the short time I've been working with Aquinas there has been more discussion about bettering the game than at any time before, not even with UniSocAll and Liu, who weren't close to being inactive, or you and Farsun, who also couldn't have been faulted with that.

Moderators have never, in this game, had the role of torch-bearers, that was always left to the dedication of the players as a whole.

Yes and no. Darvian certainly was a torch bearer. Unisocall was a torch bearer. Liu still is. All three of them did tremendous work to destroy the colonies, and nothing has more changed the IC landscape of this game than them (if you'd have told me Luthori would be a no-name country before Darvian did his work, or you told me that Hulstria would be Asian themed a few years ago, I'd have laughed you out of the room). Each of them was involved in that as part of their tenure as moderators. I can tell you right now that if Farsun and I were unchained from you during our tenure we would (like it or not) have been a very active moderation team ICly. Even Aquinas has been remarkably active (think JohnJohn in Selucia, etc.) I'd argue that you are the anomaly, and it's likely why you've not been run out (like lots of mods) over so long - you haven't stepped on toes because you've been reluctant to step at all.

Actually, Darvin is the only exception there, and the most problematic at that, because it heavily interfered with his moderating. I don't know if you remember, but at the time almost half of the community were convinced that he was using his moderator powers to further his agenda with his organisation, as well as collecting colonies for some time. The destruction of the colonies, that Liu so fervently managed, was done long after he ceased to be a moderator. And even that was done ICly and not by making a rule against it - that came only at the very end, and made by me (not that I want to claim any significance other than making that little rule, since it was really Liu's tremendous effort that made it possible).

However, if your argument is that all or at least most moderators were great forces of the game ICly, so was I. The difference is, and that's really, as far as I know, the exception, that I stopped playing in order to be able to decide in an unbiased way. Which, now that there is a second moderator, might not be necessary anymore, btw.

Now for some things you said to Aquinas that I'd also like to adress:

As explained previously, there is no "Senior Moderator" position. Even if I and/or Amazeroth wanted to create such a position, we would not be able to do something like that without Wouter. And at least so far as I am aware, Wouter has never created such a position.

It's not an official position, but it's an understood position, as recently implied by Reddy, and as directly implied to myself and Farsun during our dealings with Amazeroth. I cannot (and likely would not) link directly to the places in the Mod forum where Amazeroth intimated that in the final analysis what he said went, even if both Farsun and myself stood opposed, but it was certainly an implication that I felt clearly, and that I felt was a detriment to our ability to make positive change to the game. It was clear that Amazeroth held the power of the veto, and I'm asking him to openly renounce that power here, and I'm asking you to not grant him that power, even if by nothing more than a side effect of your (maddeningly-Aquinas-like) respect for him, if we're going to move forward. My essential argument here is that you should absolutely feel 100% empowered to rule on things like Cultural Protocols without seeking Amazeroth's input, for several reasons: because for years he has done the same on his own, because you're active and he's not, and any time you wait for him you bottleneck the process, and because you've shown yourself to be capable of dealing with these issues on your own. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't ask him for advice. I'm saying you need to be willing to pull the trigger and make a call if he's gone, or even if he's here and disagrees with you, and I'm saying that if his status as your senior (in tenure alone, if you like) makes you hesitate, then he should do us a favor and remove himself, because you are the future and he is the past.

I'm sorry you felt that I was somehow superior to you as mod, but nothing I said or did was intended to give you that impression. For the record, you could have said something about this any time during your tenure as a mod, but if I really was that intimidating I understand that you didn't. I never held any power of a veto, and I never tried to use such a power as well. On the contrary - when I was opposed to something both you and Farsun liked, I enacted it as well, and publically endorsed it. There was not a single time I went against something you both wanted, or did something over your heads.

I also have to say this on Aquinas' behalf, because you seem to make him out as weak willed or overly susceptible - in his short time as moderator he has already shown that he's well capable of acting without any help and showing good judgement with it - the incident with JohnJohn you bring up points to that. While he has asked me for advice, he never did so in a manner that would imply any perceived inferiority, and, as you know from his posts on this forum, he is certainly capable and unafraid of standing behind his ideas and actions, and while we certainly are on good terms he never has been afraid of debating them openly, and often with me as well. And just as Aquinas isn't someone to back down just because he's newer at this, I wouldn't dream of trying to influence him in the way you seem to fear. And I have to say that while I'm fine with myself being attacked, I do resent the way you seem to paint Aquinas at times - although I'm sure you're not doing it out of spite.

Amazeroth knows this game inside out, perhaps more than anybody else here. He is helping me with all sorts of things right now at the moment. I need him. And although some of you might not immediately see it, you guys need him too. If we lost him now, this game would be much, much, much the poorer for it.

He knows the mechanics inside out. Yes. Better than anyone. Yes. He taught me, he taught Farsun, and either he or Liu or I, or you have taught you. But I do not believe that it is fair to say that he knows this community as well as some, anymore. This is the center point of my concern. Amazeroth served us well for quite some time, perhaps longer than any moderator. But he has in the recent past been at the center of significant intrigue that has not done good for this game (Reiko/Valdstejn debacle, his handling of Farsun and myself [to a lesser extent], etc.) Worse, he has several times neglected to find himself the assistance he needed to make Particracy's mod team decent again, and we've twice been left with essentially no mod team for a period of days (and weeks, recently).

Actually, the only thing here where we see eye to eye is that I failed to create a good team in time. I have to say that I was rather wary of choosing other mods after the Farsun affair, and then it dragged on too long. I was about to recruit new mods when the illness hit me, but, as I said, I should have done that much sooner.
As for the rest - the Reiko/Valdstejn debacle wasn't one at the time, but only hugely exaggerated afterwards, all that effectively happend was that the IML was locked for about two days. I have no recollection of handling you poorly - it's not like we parted in bad terms, or I somehow forced you out of the moderation team. And my handling of Farsun was cleared of all wrongs by an independent investigation by IdioC, just in case you forgot. And neither of them did bad for the game - all they accomplished was stirring it up for a few days. It's not like players left in drones (or left at all) because of that, or that any important accomplishments, RP or otherwise, were destroyed.


To recap - the two things I acknowledge I did wrong, and which I apologise for, are not picking new moderators fast enough, and too much inactivity in the last year. And the one thing I made clear, and without hesitation make clear again, is that I am not considering myself, nor have ever considered myself, the "senior mod", or above fellow moderators in any other way. Aquinas has exactly the same amount of authority and commands the same level of respect (if not more for his burst of activity). The rest, I fear, is something of a chimaera I might have become in your memories, at least going from the things you said here and in a few other places.

[Aquinas]

I cannot (and likely would not) link directly to the places in the Mod forum where Amazeroth intimated that in the final analysis what he said went, even if both Farsun and myself stood opposed, but it was certainly an implication that I felt clearly, and that I felt was a detriment to our ability to make positive change to the game.

I will just say that I have looked at the posts in the Mod forum from your period as Mod, and I found no evidence of Amazeroth being like that. I do not recognise that picture of him in the way he has worked with me, either.

[JuliaAJA]

Welcome back, Amazeroth!