Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

General discussions about the Particracy web game.

Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Aquinas » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:15 pm

Polites wrote:With the new Cildanian CP, Maltese can be added as Cildania main language.


Changed it to "Maltese, Phoenician (Hebrew accepted as a substitute) or Berber". Is that okay?
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Polites » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:51 pm

Aquinas wrote:
Polites wrote:With the new Cildanian CP, Maltese can be added as Cildania main language.


Changed it to "Maltese, Phoenician (Hebrew accepted as a substitute) or Berber". Is that okay?


It's perfect.
Me pinguem et nitidum bene curata cute vises,
Cum ridere voles, Epicuri de grege porcum
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby LudwigUller » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:44 am

Hi, All the parties with seats in Saridan just voted for a bill that would make us a republic.

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=495761

Could we be renamed: Republiek van Seridjan (Republic of Saridan)

Thank you in advance.
Dunter
Kalia
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Reddy » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:52 am

LudwigUller wrote:Hi, All the parties with seats in Saridan just voted for a bill that would make us a republic.

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=495761

Could we be renamed: Republiek van Seridjan (Republic of Saridan)

Thank you in advance.
Dunter


Done. You ought to have posted your request on the Nation/Region/City/Newspaper Renaming Requests thread - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4361. This one is for feedback from players on the Nation Renaming Guide.
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Aquinas » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Following the acceptance of a new Cultural Protocol for Kundrati, I presume Kundrati's entry should be changed from "Any" to "Latin, Basque or English".
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Aquinas » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:54 pm

Aquinas wrote:Following the acceptance of a new Cultural Protocol for Kundrati, I presume Kundrati's entry should be changed from "Any" to "Latin, Basque or English".


I notice the entry has been changed to "Basque or Latin". Could I query why English was excluded? The Cultural Protocol makes clear English/Luthori is one of the major languages, alongside Basque/Kundrati and Latin/Selucian:

PRIMARY LANGUAGE

37% Selucian (= Latin)
33% Kundrati (= Basque, plus significant influences from other languages, particularly Latin)
26% Luthori (= English)
1% Endralonian (= Hungarian)
1% Zergonese (= Croatian)
1% Hugalonese (= Slovenian)
1% other languages

The majority of citizens of the Kundrati Union are fully fluent in all of the three main languages, Kundrati and Selucian and Luthori; and many use all three, and/or mixture(s) thereof, at various points in their daily lives.


The nation title is also in English at the moment, BTW.
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Reddy » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:31 pm

Aquinas wrote:
Aquinas wrote:Following the acceptance of a new Cultural Protocol for Kundrati, I presume Kundrati's entry should be changed from "Any" to "Latin, Basque or English".


I notice the entry has been changed to "Basque or Latin". Could I query why English was excluded? The Cultural Protocol makes clear English/Luthori is one of the major languages, alongside Basque/Kundrati and Latin/Selucian:

PRIMARY LANGUAGE

37% Selucian (= Latin)
33% Kundrati (= Basque, plus significant influences from other languages, particularly Latin)
26% Luthori (= English)
1% Endralonian (= Hungarian)
1% Zergonese (= Croatian)
1% Hugalonese (= Slovenian)
1% other languages

The majority of citizens of the Kundrati Union are fully fluent in all of the three main languages, Kundrati and Selucian and Luthori; and many use all three, and/or mixture(s) thereof, at various points in their daily lives.


The nation title is also in English at the moment, BTW.


It has also been my understanding that the languages authorised in the NRG do not reflect the languages that are spoken in the country but rather the major cultures. See the one you made on Aloria or Kazulia and others...English was not included despite being widely spoken. I was following precedent but on close reflection, there's quite some confusion about what the exact way of doing this as both approaches were adopted with no real consistency.

Also the bill is not quite clear on preferences for naming.

Accordingly, it's recommended to use Roman and/or Basque names for most characters, please; the occasional exception might have an English, Hungarian, Celtic, etc. name.
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Aquinas » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:56 pm

Reddy wrote:It has also been my understanding that the languages authorised in the NRG do not reflect the languages that are spoken in the country but rather the major cultures. See the one you made on Aloria or Kazulia and others...English was not included despite being widely spoken. I was following precedent but on close reflection, there's quite some confusion about what the exact way of doing this as both approaches were adopted with no real consistency.


The purpose of the Nation Renaming Guide is to give players a sense that the cultural character of their nation is being preserved. It was never meant to be permanently set in stone; that is why we have this feedback thread, so players can communicate their preferences. The languages generally reflect the languages spoken in the nation, although there can be exceptions. To give an example, from what I understand, Old Church Slavonic is practically a dead language and not widely spoken in Deltaria, but it is still listed because it is a "prestige" language, which Deltarians sometimes use for official titles.

I don't know what you're referring to with regards to Aloria, since English is not a primary language there. Its on 35%, compared to 88% for Welsh and 75% for German.

You do have a point with regards to Kazulia, and I would fully agree that if key, long-term players in Kazulia came forward asking for English to be added, that should be sympathetically considered. However, it may also be the case that the Kazulian community feel their nation's character is better preserved by ensuring the nation title remains in Norwegian.


Reddy wrote:Also the bill is not quite clear on preferences for naming.

Accordingly, it's recommended to use Roman and/or Basque names for most characters, please; the occasional exception might have an English, Hungarian, Celtic, etc. name.



I think you're getting confused between the cultural background of peoples names, and the actual languages they are speaking. If you read the part of the Cultural Protocol I quoted in my previous post, you'll see it seems very much that English is one of the 3 core languages in Kundrati.

For what its worth, when I was dealing with new Cultural Protocols, if there seemed any ambiguity about what the Nation Renaming Guide languages should be, I would consult with the players. If I was you, unless the Kundratis have directed you otherwise, I would include English amongst the languages. Especially considering they are currently using an English nation title. But obviously, this is your show not mine, so do whatever you feel you need to do.
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Reddy » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:20 am

Aquinas wrote:
I don't know what you're referring to with regards to Aloria, since English is not a primary language there. Its on 35%, compared to 88% for Welsh and 75% for German.


i referred to it because the Alorians similar to the Kundratis said:

Guidelines:

• Party names should be in both Welsh and German (English is acceptable but least preferred)




Aquinas wrote:You do have a point with regards to Kazulia, and I would fully agree that if key, long-term players in Kazulia came forward asking for English to be added, that should be sympathetically considered. However, it may also be the case that the Kazulian community feel their nation's character is better preserved by ensuring the nation title remains in Norwegian.


Yes your precedents there are not very clear. The one we choose to follow is the one taking the players' instruction first and where it is not clear, the cultural background is considered.

Reddy wrote:Also the bill is not quite clear on preferences for naming.

Accordingly, it's recommended to use Roman and/or Basque names for most characters, please; the occasional exception might have an English, Hungarian, Celtic, etc. name.


I think you're getting confused between the cultural background of peoples names, and the actual languages they are speaking. If you read the part of the Cultural Protocol I quoted in my previous post, you'll see it seems very much that English is one of the 3 core languages in Kundrati. [/quote]

See my example of Aloria above and no, I'm not confused about such a simple thing. I am however confused by the unclear precedents you set which seem to use both cultural background and actual languages (something which is often linked) in alternation In the real world, it is not uncommon for a country, especially in the post-colonial world to officially use or speak a European or foreign language but still have everything named in their native tongues.

Aquinas wrote:For what its worth, when I was dealing with new Cultural Protocols, if there seemed any ambiguity about what the Nation Renaming Guide languages should be, I would consult with the players. If I was you, unless the Kundratis have directed you otherwise, I would include English amongst the languages. Especially considering they are currently using an English nation title. But obviously, this is your show not mine, so do whatever you feel you need to do.


Whatever you are insinuating there, we do understand the purpose of this thread and value the input of players greatly as our many consultations surely show. If the Kundrati players do ask for English to be added, Moderation will be happy to so. The Kundratis have already been asked to change their nation title to reflect their adoption of Cultural Protocols and NRG.
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Re: Nation Renaming Guide: feedback

Postby Aquinas » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:03 pm

Reddy wrote:
Aquinas wrote:
I don't know what you're referring to with regards to Aloria, since English is not a primary language there. Its on 35%, compared to 88% for Welsh and 75% for German.


i referred to it because the Alorians similar to the Kundratis said:

Guidelines:

• Party names should be in both Welsh and German (English is acceptable but least preferred)


Reddy, every party in every nation is permitted to have their party name in English! Please re-familiarise yourself with section 6 of the Game Rules, particularly section 6.3. The only significance to the chunk of text you've just quoted is that it further confirms that whilst Aloria's Cultural Protocol considers Welsh and German to be core languages, it does not consider English in the same way (ie. precisely the opposite of what you are claiming).

(BTW I could also point out that every single Kundrati party currently has its party name in English.)

Reddy wrote:I am however confused by the unclear precedents you set which seem to use both cultural background and actual languages (something which is often linked) in alternation In the real world, it is not uncommon for a country, especially in the post-colonial world to officially use or speak a European or foreign language but still have everything named in their native tongues.


I'm confused by your confusion and not finding you're making much sense here. As I said before, the purpose of the Nation Renaming Guide is to give players a sense that the basic cultural character of their nation is being preserved. Within that scope, there is meant to be a degree of room both for common-sense and for player feedback to be taken into account. Its about exercising judgement.

Reddy wrote:Whatever you are insinuating there, we do understand the purpose of this thread and value the input of players greatly as our many consultations surely show. If the Kundrati players do ask for English to be added, Moderation will be happy to so. The Kundratis have already been asked to change their nation title to reflect their adoption of Cultural Protocols and NRG.


I was not "insinuating" anything, but I do find it bizarre that the Kundratis have introduced a Cultural Protocol obviously making English a core language, and you have responded to that by ordering them to change the language of the title of their nation away from English.

It's great what you say about valuing the purpose of this thread. Given that, can I query whether, before you ordered them to change their nation title to Basque or Latin, you alerted them to the existence of this thread and invited them to offer you feedback on whether they want English to be listed as a language for the Kundrati entry? (BTW in future I would suggest it is a good idea to have this discussion with the players during the 4 day window when the new Cultural Protocol request is being considered).
Last edited by Aquinas on Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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