OOC: Counter-Realism in Particracy

[colonelvesica]

Well Kubrick i stand corrected.. thank you sir

Ill modify my statement then to Greece.. i hope :p my point ultimately stands i hope

[Farsun]

Well Kubrick i stand corrected.. thank you sir

Ill modify my statement then to Greece.. i hope :p my point ultimately stands i hope

It won't my man, its a sovereign nation and it can do as it pleases.

[Doc]

And about the aircraft carrier:

In what concerns military matters, as a rule of thumb, less is more. Nobody has ever gotten into OOC bickering because they RPd a small and/or technologically obsolete military. Aircraft carriers (and nukes for that matter) are great force multipliers - if you have them, that changes things drastically in your favor, so it stands to reason that if you want them, you have to work for them. The way that's done is exactly how colonelvesica mentioned above.

And again, this is not mandatory, at least in the case of Kalistan, which hasn't ratified the Roleplay Accord. But if we all want to get along, it's good to have some common guidelines we can all agree on.

I understand, Comrade, but this is not what was stated to me, and by the way, I am not disputing that I can't have an aircraft carrier. What I am disputing is the notion that someone thinks they can presume to declare that all aircraft carriers have to be approved by a PC and their IC Party Organization, when they themselves know that is not the case. It was not represented to me, ultimately as if I even had a choice, except with approval through OTAF. That is the sort of creeping hegemony that I am leery of. That easy omission of pertinent yet inconvenient data which, if I was a new player, I would have just swallowed and went along with, as if it had always been that way.

Its not just the military either. It is the tendency for players to get their preferences along these lines written into the rules so it is no longer voluntary. Once it is in there, it is difficult to take out, and instead, the trend seems to go the other way.

At the end, I am just venting anyway... But if another player presumes the power or privilege to call me on the carpet for something that he or she personally doesn't like that I am doing because it violates THEIR own project, I will happily tell them where to get off. Because unlike a lot of the newer players, I know better, which is why I have a problem with people claiming that "that's how it works here" when I know that AT BEST it works like that because most have agreed that it should, but not because it is part of any rule.

What I want is the realists to chill the fuck out about forcing realism into this game, even on a quasi-voluntary basis. The I can chill the fuck out about opposing it. To be fair- I would have happily RPed an entire thread about the development of the Kalistani Naval capacity. I was preparing to (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&p=95767#p95754) when that business came down about me having to get my capital ship purchases approved through OTAF came through my PM. I am totally in line with building up, but I am not totally in line with other players telling me what is reasonable for me, or anyone to have, or how we should be acting in conformity with a grand narrative, or how elements of our national culture which we RPed can get played by outside actors, in this game, because it is just a game, and a fantastic one at that.

Have realism, to a point, but man- never let it limit people. Creativity should always trump realism in this game, and when realism gets in the way of having a good time, it should be put aside for the time being... There is so much that you all do which adds so much value to this game. Culture? A reasonable military? Yes, I agree, the game is so much more fun when people aren't doing bizarre shit. But when it is used to circumvent roleplay in the name of coherency, we should view that as a problem, not a good thing. We are not designing a world here. We are interacting with one another. That's what we should focus on.

And at the very least, people should not treat others as babies and "bitches" for not conforming to their set notion of how things should be. I do not need to have things explained to me unless I ask for it. I have been playing this game for a long time, and I think I understand how things go around here. But the only overlord I acknowledge in this game is the moderation team. And as long as I play in Kalistan, that is the only external authority Kalistan will recognize too. If I play along with the various programs of the realists in Particracy, its because it enhances the fun of the game for me. Not because I am joining you all in universe building.

I am done venting. Thank you for talking with me. Most of you treated this conversation with some respect, and I appreciate that.

[Doc]

And Farsun, if I ever DO develop an aircraft carrier in Kalistan, I will name it after you and send it on a world cruise. The Farsun-class KSS-Sovereign Brah. Full Diesel, capable of carrying a full compliment of 7, count em, 7 VTOL jumpjets offering premium close support. And then I will sell it promptly to my Party Militia.

Peace.

[Farsun]

And Farsun, if I ever DO develop an aircraft carrier in Kalistan, I will name it after you and send it on a world cruise. The Farsun-class KSS-Sovereign Brah. Full Diesel, capable of carrying a full compliment of 7, count em, 7 VTOL jumpjets offering premium close support. And then I will sell it promptly to my Party Militia.

Peace.

You're such a brony.

I hope that Kalistan rules the waves and it so cool. Remember what I said about someone being told that it is not the US and can't just park a fleet off the coast and hurting someones internet feels?

Boom. Case and point.

[Doc]

And Farsun, if I ever DO develop an aircraft carrier in Kalistan, I will name it after you and send it on a world cruise. The Farsun-class KSS-Sovereign Brah. Full Diesel, capable of carrying a full compliment of 7, count em, 7 VTOL jumpjets offering premium close support. And then I will sell it promptly to my Party Militia.

Peace.

You're such a brony.

I hope that Kalistan rules the waves and it so cool. Remember what I said about someone being told that it is not the US and can't just park a fleet off the coast and hurting someones internet feels?

Boom. Case and point.

And you are a fascist control freak. Remember what I said about people trying to tell others what they can and can't have even though they actually have no power to do so? I should add that their "internet feels" (since you seem to love this strange construction so much, I'll use it too, just so I can be sure you know what I mean) get hurt when someone reminds them that they don't actually have any power over any of that.

Boom. Case and point.

[Polites]

I understand, Comrade, but this is not what was stated to me, and by the way, I am not disputing that I can't have an aircraft carrier. What I am disputing is the notion that someone thinks they can presume to declare that all aircraft carriers have to be approved by a PC and their IC Party Organization, when they themselves know that is not the case. It was not represented to me, ultimately as if I even had a choice, except with approval through OTAF. That is the sort of creeping hegemony that I am leery of. That easy omission of pertinent yet inconvenient data which, if I was a new player, I would have just swallowed and went along with, as if it had always been that way.Its not just the military either. It is the tendency for players to get their preferences along these lines written into the rules so it is no longer voluntary. Once it is in there, it is difficult to take out, and instead, the trend seems to go the other way.At the end, I am just venting anyway... But if another player presumes the power or privilege to call me on the carpet for something that he or she personally doesn't like that I am doing because it violates THEIR own project, I will happily tell them where to get off. Because unlike a lot of the newer players, I know better, which is why I have a problem with people claiming that "that's how it works here" when I know that AT BEST it works like that because most have agreed that it should, but not because it is part of any rule.What I want is the realists to chill the fuck out about forcing realism into this game, even on a quasi-voluntary basis. The I can chill the fuck out about opposing it. To be fair- I would have happily RPed an entire thread about the development of the Kalistani Naval capacity. I was preparing to (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&p=95767#p95754) when that business came down about me having to get my capital ship purchases approved through OTAF came through my PM. I am totally in line with building up, but I am not totally in line with other players telling me what is reasonable for me, or anyone to have, or how we should be acting in conformity with a grand narrative, or how elements of our national culture which we RPed can get played by outside actors, in this game, because it is just a game, and a fantastic one at that.Have realism, to a point, but man- never let it limit people. Creativity should always trump realism in this game, and when realism gets in the way of having a good time, it should be put aside for the time being... There is so much that you all do which adds so much value to this game. Culture? A reasonable military? Yes, I agree, the game is so much more fun when people aren't doing bizarre shit. But when it is used to circumvent roleplay in the name of coherency, we should view that as a problem, not a good thing. We are not designing a world here. We are interacting with one another. That's what we should focus on.And at the very least, people should not treat others as babies and "bitches" for not conforming to their set notion of how things should be. I do not need to have things explained to me unless I ask for it. I have been playing this game for a long time, and I think I understand how things go around here. But the only overlord I acknowledge in this game is the moderation team. And as long as I play in Kalistan, that is the only external authority Kalistan will recognize too. If I play along with the various programs of the realists in Particracy, its because it enhances the fun of the game for me. Not because I am joining you all in universe building.I am done venting. Thank you for talking with me. Most of you treated this conversation with some respect, and I appreciate that.

Fair enough, and I totally respect that. I also agree that creativity trumps realism - in an ideal world, we would have both of them and everyone will be happy.

Let me just state, on record, that the RP Team will do its best not to impose anything on anyone against their will, and I will emphasize again that we have yet to actually do something substantial with our new powers. Having the RP Accord be mandatory for everyone is not in the books at this time, and I doubt it will ever be. What we are trying to do is establish general economic and military guidelines that are acceptable to most if not all active players, and we are trying to do that in a way that enhances RP. We certainly don't want to micromanage how much of anything a particular nation has, unless they specifically ask for that.

[Farsun]

And you are a fascist control freak. Remember what I said about people trying to tell others what they can and can't have even though they actually have no power to do so? I should add that their "internet feels" (since you seem to love this strange construction so much, I'll use it too, just so I can be sure you know what I mean) get hurt when someone reminds them that they don't actually have any power over any of that.

Boom. Case and point.

I prefer the term "Conservative". Hardly though, I just think that instead of reaching out personally and seeing what the deal was with OTAF, you took to a public forum for it. It's just kinda silly in reality.

I'm content with not having any power, it just means I can stoop to the levels of other players now and act like they do and no one can stop me.

[Doc]

[quote=Polites]What we are trying to do is establish general economic and military guidelines that are acceptable to most if not all active players, and we are trying to do that in a way that enhances RP. We certainly don't want to micromanage how much of anything a particular nation has, unless they specifically ask for that.[/quote]


I would be happy to be a part of that discussion, not as an official member or anything, but more so that I won't end up not knowing in the future when this comes up again.

[Zanz]

What we are trying to do is establish general economic and military guidelines that are acceptable to most if not all active players, and we are trying to do that in a way that enhances RP. We certainly don't want to micromanage how much of anything a particular nation has, unless they specifically ask for that.

I would be happy to be a part of that discussion, not as an official member or anything, but more so that I won't end up not knowing in the future when this comes up again.

We'll certainly keep that in mind. We're still relatively far from prepared to offer these guidelines, but we're working on it actively.