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RP TEAM: Military RP Questions and Guide Thread

Postby Zanz » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:22 pm

Frequently Asked Questions:

What is this thread?

This thread will serve two purposes, the first immediate and the second ongoing.

First, the RP Team offers this thread as a one-stop shop for players who seek to improve their RP. The four of us have extensive experience roleplaying in Particracy, and each of us has had at least one really fun military RP. We hope to help you learn how to have fun in your own military RP.

Second, the RP Team intends for this thread to serve as a central hub in which players can ask us questions related to military RP. Wondering how your nation can go about roleplaying its status as a regional military power? Wondering how your navy should fare against that pesky neighboring nation? Ask it in here and we'll be happy to offer our opinions.

So this is a little different from the RP Team's Economic and Military rankings threads, huh?

It is. Whereas those threads set out rankings of each nation in Particracy in relation to one another ICly, this thread is much more OOC in character. Here the RP Team will lay out our philosophy on what makes "good" military RP, and will attempt to help the players of PT grow their own RP abilities to help everyone have more fun.

Think of the rankings threads as setting out where your nation falls in the world's hierarchy. Think of this thread as offering advice on how to play your nation in that world all while getting along with others, not looking like a jerk, writing a cool story that furthers the world narrative, and, most importantly, having fun!

Our General Philosophy (Particracy RP's Golden Rule, aka TL;DR):

Don't be a jerk. :)

Our General Philosophy, Expanded:

The absolute, indisputable, number one reason Particracy military RP goes off the rails is OOC bickering, generally over disagreements on the realism of one player or another's military claims about his nation. Players very often have perceptions of their own nations that see the nation as more powerful than those outside of the nation perceive it to be, and they therefore make claims that others see as power gaming or god-modding. When someone perceives someone as power gaming, they often will stop the RP right then and there and cry out OOC - "Wait! Your nation can't have 12 carriers! You're too poor!"

Player A believes his nation is very powerful and makes unrealistic claims about his nation's capabilities, which gives Player B little room to play along. Player B disagrees and immediately freaks out about Player A, out of character.

Both Player A and Player B have violated the Golden Rule, but neither necessarily did it on purpose, and helping people realize when they're being a jerk is what the RP Team is aiming to do. Let's talk a bit more about Player A and Player B.

Player A ("the power player"), explored
Player A is somebody we have all been at one point or another in our time in Particracy.

Player A is a player who has not yet learned the ropes of RP interaction in Particracy and probably came to this game first and foremost for the political sim - not the military RP. It's very possible, therefore, that he's never RP'd a military storyline in his life, that he might not know the intricacies of military equipment, and that he might actually be posting on the Particracy forum for the first time in his tenure. It is very easy, when these circumstances exist, for Player A to assume that his nation is all-powerful. It's very likely Player A in real life comes from a first world nation whose military power is very high (higher than any IC nation in Particracy, relatively speaking), and Player A might not have much experience with the militaries of other nations. It's therefore not very surprising to see that he would RP what he knows. Learning to RP outside of your comfort zone is a process that requires strong support - and we should do all we can as a community to help Player A learn.

Player A is not necessarily new to Particracy - tenure really has no correlation to maturity as a role player. Player A can just as easily be someone who has played for ten years and who never matured as an RPer as it can be someone who has played for ten minutes.

It is therefore possible that Player A could also be someone who understands the differences between PT and the real world, who knows a ton about military dynamics and equipment, but who simply has never learned that while, yes, "winning" an RP can be cool, Losing is Fun! too, and a story is a lot more fun for everyone to partake in when one person isn't raging through like a bull in a china shop, refusing to lose any ground because his nation has the most advanced missile cruiser.

Interacting productively with Player A, or: How to not drive away talent
  • Remember that Player A has not yet matured as a role player. There can be numerous causes for this, and we all have a duty to our community to help players mature, rather than run them out at the first mistake they make. Remember your own first attempt at RP. You probably were a jerk, then, too. Be. Nice. Everyone can mature, even Zanz, Troll King.
  • Don't be Player B (see below). Do not disrupt a thread to call out Player A on how his RP is wrong. Send a polite private message instead, or post in the OOC thread for the RP if there is one. Point players to this thread and to the RP Team. Point them to instances of great RP so that they can grow and learn how things are done.
  • Don't continue to interact ICly with Player A once you've identified an issue. If we reinforce negative behavior by recognizing it and legitimizing it, we are doing a disservice to the player (who will not mature) and to the community (who will have to deal with continuing immature play in the future). Send a polite private message explaining why you'll be ending your IC involvement, and point the player to this thread and to the RP Team.

Help! I'm Player A! I'm sorry, I didn't know! What can I do?
Remember, everyone in Particracy was in your shoes at one point or another - even our RP Team and our Mods. We're happy to have you here in this thread and looking to grow, and we're here to help if you need us. Some tips:

  • Read through this thread and look at the kinds of questions people are asking. You might have similar questions, or you might be inspired to question something as a result of your read through. Ask aways!
  • Read through the RP Team's Economic and Military rankings threads and think critically about your role play and how it fits in the grand picture of Particracy's world.
  • Understand that Losing is Fun! just as long as you write a good story. In the current global war, the RP Team's nations are collectively going to blow each other to bits, and we're having a ton of fun writing that story.
  • COMMUNICATE. The best thing you can do for your RP is to start talking it through with others. Our community loves to interact, and if you float an RP idea on the forum, odds are very high that you'll find someone who's got an idea how his RP could fit into your RP. Plan ahead of time - as Doc has taught us, the best RPs are arranged OOC ahead of time - angles are written, faces and heels are decided, episodes are booked, and pop is built (see this post for a very interesting discussion of these wrestling terms in relation to Particracy RP). If you have an idea for an RP, run it by the RP Team (feel free to do so in this thread, if you like!) and we can help figure out how to make it work.

Player B ("the indignant"), explored
It is all too easy to be Player B - and even long tenured Particracy RPers are susceptible to the temptation.

It is very often the case that Player B exists because he is trying, legitimately, to do what we just suggested above in the the section on interacting productively with Player A. Player B is often motivated by a desire to help the person he is engaging OOC, but Player B goes wrong when he uses a confrontational tone or allows his protests to derail an RP for OOC reasons. Upset at Player A for what he sees as power playing or god modding, he takes the thread into ruin by calling out the specifics of what Player A has done wrong, allowing Player A no recourse but to defend himself OOC (effectively ending the possibility of fun for anyone) or else give up the RP altogether in disgust (effectively losing a player for Particracy).

It is therefore very important that the more tenured members of our community understand that their tenure alone does not mean that they are mature role players, and to realize that Player B is an immature RPer just as Player A is. Maturity, therefore, means the ability to resist the urge to confront Player A OOC for his misunderstandings.

Interacting productively with Player B, or: How to avoid thread collapse
  • If you see a thread going off the rails because of OOC bickering, please do not post in that thread. Look to see if there's an OOC thread if you'd like to comment and feel free to post there, but do not fan the flames of an OOC disagreement by posting OOC further.
  • Notify the RP Team or Moderation by PM on the forum, by post here, or by PM in game, and we can reach out to people involved and attempt to help.
  • Understand that often, Player B exists due to a genuine desire to be helpful - it just is often the case that his actions do not come off that way. Be patient and understanding with one another. Feel free to send polite PMs or post in OOC threads to discuss disruptive behavior, being sure to offer constructive feedback.
  • If someone has posted OOC in your thread and you wish for those OOC posts to be removed so that the IC play can continue, reach out to Moderation, as they have the ability and judgement to determine if OOC posts should be deleted or moved.
  • Create an OOC thread for your roleplay! Nothing can better ensure you can isolate OOC bickering from IC roleplay than to remove OOC discussion entirely from your RP thread. When you've created an OOC thread, ensure everyone knows it exists, knows its purpose, and if someone posts OOC in the RP thread, send them a polite PM reminding them how the division should work.

Help! I'm Player B! I'm sorry, I didn't know! What can I do?
Remember, we understand that you very probably mean well. It's likely that you're an expert on a certain area of role play or military equipment and you believe passionately that you can make clear every player's misunderstandings with one OOC post. While this belief is fine, you have to go about expressing yourself in a positive way so as not to derail RP or place others on the defensive.

  • Do not post OOC in IC threads. If you're unsure, or if you have even an inkling that the thread you're about to post in might be IC, don't post there. You may have an excellent point. You may be "right." But you're going to come off as more confrontational than you mean to, and that's going to put everyone (and the RP!) on edge and make the game less fun.
  • You're allowed (and encouraged!) to share your expertise or areas of interest. Everyone on the RP Team has learned something, at one point or another, from someone in this community who knows more than us in a particular area. Knowledge sharing in this community is a great perk of playing here, and it's also good for our collective growth. It is important, however, that you share your constructive feedback in the proper venue. An IC thread is never the proper venue for OOC feedback. It ruins the flow of an RP, it is very public (and thus potentially embarrassing for the person whom you are giving feedback to, if the feedback is perceived as very fundamental), and it is incredibly easy for one OOC comment to balloon into 10 or 20.
  • Keep in mind that short tenure does not mean immaturity, and long tenure does not mean maturity. We have had several players join Particracy and quickly contribute to robust and absolutely fun RP. We have had numerous "Old Guard" veterans who never learned to lose gracefully and thus made RP no fun for everyone involved Be patient with all players.
  • Understand that everyone has different understandings of what this game is and how it should be played. Many of us have no military knowledge whatsoever. Some of us have a huge interest in the military. We all play together, and the one thing we can agree upon is that we want to have fun (otherwise why would we play at all?). Not everyone wants to or can provide extensive lists of their military equipment - and some people will have very detailed ones. This is a good thing for Particracy - it means we all have to learn to interact with people for whom the game is a very different experience, and it means we can open ourselves to learning just what it is about this game that keeps everyone coming back after all this time. If someone has no OrBat and you want one, ask them politely in the OOC thread or in a PM. If they don't have one, or if they give you one that's not realistic in your opinion, and you can't reconcile, shake virtual hands, call it a day, and don't RP with one another. There's plenty of opportunities elsewhere. Don't attack someone because they don't play in your style - instead, try to mesh your styles so both of you can have fun.

In Summary:

Don't be a jerk. :)

The RP Team and Our Role:

For many of you, this section may be the most broadly interesting. What follows is a list of some (but not all) of the things the RP Team feels it is its duty to do in regards to military RP:

  • We will continue to update the Military Rankings, which will remain canon for RP Accord nations and strong suggestions for non-RP Accord nations. These will be the source of truth which we refer to when asked to offer military RP advice.
  • We encourage players with an interest in military equipment and knowledge to discuss these topics as they wish, but will proactively reach out to affected players if we believe that the military advice of any player or organization to any other player is being given with any implication of being official in nature. Official military rulings in Particracy can come only from the RP Team (for RP Accord nations) or from Moderation (for all nations).
  • In regards to military composition and equipment, it is the official advice of the RP Team that nations avoid comprehensive lists / equipment equivalents in favor of general descriptions. Lists of the entire composition of a military are very difficult to maintain, and lead to RP becoming an exercise in math rather than a story-telling, and very few players in Particracy (including the full RP Team) have the military expertise necessary to determine if the S-400 missile defense system is capable of destroying 95 or 97% of all incoming ballistic missiles, for instance. In short, rather than listing out what your nation has, use RP to show us what your military can do.
  • In regards to military equipment, it is the position of the RP Team that no nation will be officially recognized as the "exporter nation" of any particular real world technologies. Players can continue to RP nations as the source of specific real world technologies if they wish to do so, but they may not imply that such exporter nations are official. No player/nation shall have to get approval from any other player/nation to claim the ability to produce any RL military technology, unless they voluntarily choose to do so. The RP Team will rule (for RP Accord nations)/advise (for non-RP Accord nations) on a case by case basis if players/nations claim access to technologies that do not conform to their Military Rankings.
  • As a continuation of the above, players who ICly use images of military technology which does not make "sense" for them to have (e.g. if Jelbania posted an image of an F-35) will not be assumed to be claiming that they have access to F-35s. Cool images are difficult to come by, particularly for more obscure technologies, and sometimes you just want to use an F-35 picture as a stand in for "we have planes and they bombed a thing." The content of military RP will be what is important, not the visuals.
  • The subject of aircraft carriers and nuclear weaponry is a hot topic. It is the RP Team's opinion that aircraft carriers and nuclear weapons are viable (not necessarily likely!) for all nations of Terra (with the exception of the ex-colonial nations), so long as their acquisition, maintenance, and use is very well RP'd. We will rule / advise on a case by case basis if aircraft carriers or nuclear weaponry become a problem - but we direct everyone back to what was said above: it is better to work these questions out civilly among those who will be involved in an RP. As you plan your RPs, discuss who has what capabilities and make sure everyone's on the same page.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military RP Questions and Guide Thread

Postby colonelvesica » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:44 pm

On that note then I'm going to ask for feedback on my current military RP and what the RP Team thinks of it :)
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Farsun » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:17 pm

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6685

Just like to draw either Moderation or RP Team to that. Good lucky guys.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military RP Questions and Guide Thread

Postby legorlee » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:39 am

I don't know if this is the right thread, but I could need some help to set the correct price tags of the Telamonese arms.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military RP Questions and Guide Thread

Postby Farsun » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:49 am

legorlee wrote:I don't know if this is the right thread, but I could need some help to set the correct price tags of the Telamonese arms.


Best bet would be to investigate recent arms deals that Sweden has had and go from other, or whatever other equipment you're claiming Telamon has.

EDIT: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/

Decent site, I've used it a bit, has a lot of economic information about procurement and whatnot. (I forgot that I had that saved!)
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Re: RP TEAM: Economic rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby CCP » Tue May 03, 2016 6:05 am

How was the Objective Ranking determined for countries with incomplete GDP systems?

Why did you decide not to release the scores? Any special reason? Seeing them would be helpful.
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Re: RP TEAM: Economic rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Liu Che/Zhuli » Tue May 03, 2016 2:00 pm

For all countries, incomplete and complete GDP, we simply looked at focus, so percent of spending on something relative to their GDP. Thus, total GDP doesn't really count, since the economic system is truly broken for everyone, and every nation gets a fair shot at the rankings.

I believe we decided not to release the scores for each category because the post would be gigantic. We went to great lengths to keep the objective scores as objective as possible given what we had to work with.
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Re: RP TEAM: Economic rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby CCP » Tue May 03, 2016 2:13 pm

Liu Che/Zhuli wrote:For all countries, incomplete and complete GDP, we simply looked at focus, so percent of spending on something relative to their GDP. Thus, total GDP doesn't really count, since the economic system is truly broken for everyone, and every nation gets a fair shot at the rankings.


That's very helpful, thank you.
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Re: RP TEAM: Economic rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Farsun » Tue May 03, 2016 2:14 pm

That old oil map was done by me using real life areas that have oil and tried to kind of place them where I could see oil being produced in Terra
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RP Team: Economic and Military Rankings Update

Postby Polites » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:20 pm

Since it's been almost half a year since the RP Team released the official Economic and Military Rankings, we decided it is time for an overhaul and update, reflecting the change in status for the nations since the Rankings were originally released. But before we complete the update we would like to hear from the players and consult the community as to how they would like the new Rankings to look. So we are now asking for your input, suggestions, and ideas on the update to the Rankings. If you would like your nation, or any other nation(s) for that matter, to be upgraded or downgraded please state your reason why you believe its Ranking should change and please provide links to economic and/or military RP (or other RP that might conceivably have an economic or military impact) in this thread.

Before we proceed, there are some caveats that you should bear in mind about this thread:

1. While everyone's input is more than appreciated, we cannot guarantee that all suggestions will be taken into account for the final update.

2. The RP evidence provided here will only affect the subjective rankings (please read the "Methodology" section of the official posts announcing the current rankings to see what that means).

3. Preference will be given to Forum-based RP, as it is more visible and offers the other members of the community a better chance of engaging with it. Bills, wiki articles, treaties, etc. are also acceptable, but will be given less importance. Ideally the RP should show evidence of long-term phenomena or trends rather than one-time events. Recent RP may be ignored unless part of a larger trend.

4. Of course, not all nations can be economic and military powerhouses and many will by necessity have to end up at the bottom of the rankings (above the former colonies), but, as we have made clear in the official posts announcing the rankings, we find playing in an underdeveloped or militarily weak nation to be at least as entertaining as playing in a Great Power. For that reason we may appreciate downgrade requests for one's own nation a bit more. That does not mean that we will not try to be as impartial as possible, and some nations will end up as Highly Developed and Great Powers.
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