RP Team & RP Accord rankings feedback

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Re: RP TEAM: Economic rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Autokrator15 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:05 pm

Zanz wrote:Edited OP to use "New Endralon/Kizenia" for you, Autokrator. Thanks for pointing that out.

From what I can tell I think Liu satisfactorily answered all your questions, but feel free to rehash anything you'd like.

Both you and Doc are correct - these are meant to be archetypes, general categories for you the use to inform your RP. Not every Medium Development nation is a heavy polluter, absolutely. We tried to leave the wording open enough to allow for interpretation and variance within categories.

Also, in response to Siggon: we've decided on a 6 month IRL timeframe for a reassessment of our rankings. Six months from now we'll redo our two rankings just as we did this time and we'll re-average and update the overall rankings. Thanks for pointing out that we didn't have that codified. I'll add it to the OP now.


Thank you. liu has awnsered everything, I understand and support this completly. :D
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Re: RP TEAM: Economic rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Autokrator15 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:08 pm

Doc wrote:Here is the link to the Resources discussion that they did in the past, which may give an idea of the work already completed:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4411&start=0 (this one is really pretty good as a start)

And a more recent discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6211&start=0&hilit=resources

And a map of Oil (needs some updates- Kalistan has reserves on land as well, for example)

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Good to rework it from the start though I stress the RP team to talk to all nations atleast or let people participate as we have done here by naming what resources you think you have. I've read my nations wiki articles so I could create a bill defining our economy based on the RP teams economic ranking and guide lines and the wiki info on New Endralon / Kizenia and I would not like it if Kutohaderia wouldnt have minerals such as coal, steel, iron, copper etc.
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RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Liu Che/Zhuli » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:12 pm

Over the past month, the Global RP Team (Polites, Kubrick, Zanz, and I) have been working on coming up with a military ranking system that makes sense. Our first attempt was replaced with methods similar to the ones used in calculating the economic rankings, which ultimately resulted in a ranking system far easier to compute than pure subjective and descriptive analysis. The following is going to pretty much be a shameless repost of Zanz's economic ranking OP, so please read the entire post before posting in this thread.

Frequently Asked Questions:


How do these rankings affect me?

For nations which have not / not yet ratified the RP Accord, these rankings are suggestions. We ask that those who have not ratified the Accord seriously consider these rankings, and also seriously consider ratifying the Accord outright. Please feel free to utilize these rankings to inform your roleplay, your wiki writing, your history writing, etc.

For nations which have ratified the RP Accord, these rankings are canon and will be enforced by Moderation under section 20 of the Game Rules beginning on March 7, 2016 at 12:00 AM CST. At that time these rankings will supersede any contradictory information on the wiki, the forum, legislative bills, the national debate page, etc. Utilize these rankings to inform your roleplay, your wiki writing, your history writing, etc.

I disagree with my nation's ranking. Can I have a say before these rankings are official?

From today (Feb. 29, 2016) until a week from today (March 6, 2016 at 11:59 PM) these rankings will be considered to be in draft status. During this period, nations may petition the RP Team with a post on this thread for movement either upward or downward in rank. YOU MUST READ THE METHODOLOGY SECTION OF THIS POST BEFORE PETITIONING FOR A CHANGE IN RANK. Please understand that any petition is most likely to be denied and the rankings listed here will remain unchanged. We are confident in our rankings and methodology, and as such only petitions which include links to irrefutable evidence of a mistake on the part of the RP Team in creating these rankings have any likelihood of changing a nation's ranking. We are more likely to be amenable to a move downward in ranking than a move upward.

Further, we wish to recommend to all concerned parties that it is the opinion of the RP Team, with years of experience between us, that playing in less militarily powerful nations can be as fun, or even more fun, than playing in a nation which is more militarily powerful. Such a situation allows for innovative and creative RP, and also is more likely to earn the RPer the respect of his peers. In Particracy, the weaker nations do not always "lose!"

Even further, we wish to highlight the fact that no nation in Terra is so militarily powerful as to be considered a superpower or hyperpower on the level of the real world America of the mid-20th century or the British Empire at its height. All of the great power nations listed below are all relatively on par with one another militarily speaking. As such, no nation should RP itself as a global military hegemon.

OK, fine. Can I affect my nation's ranking moving forward?

These rankings are designed to be fluid on a timeline of hundreds to thousands of in-game years. With evidence of long-term, excellent military roleplay, nations can affect their ranking either upward or downward on this list. The RP Team hopes that these rankings will encourage all players and nations to engage in innovative, creative RP of military development ranging from wars, exercises, research and development, and etc.
Nations which wish to petition for a change in rank must follow this process:
A post must be made on this thread by a member party of the nation seeking a ranking change who has been continuously active for at least one month in that nation. This is to prevent petitions from being lodged by those who have little history in any nation.
The petition post should link to all relevant RP and give a brief summary of why the nation is suitable for a move in rank in either direction.
The RP in question should be:
1. Evidence of long term planning, organization, and execution on the part of one or more players in the nation.
2. Reasonably realistic in the estimation of the average player of Particracy.
3. Of high quality.
4. In fitting with the general role play environment of Particracy as a whole.
5. Strong preference will be given to forum RP, as it allows other nations and players to interact and to thus show their opinion of its reasonability.
The RP Team reserves the right to question and debate any petition, suggest further RP before repetition, reject any petition outright (with explanation as to why and with suggestion as to what might be a better path forward, or to move any nation up or down in the rankings without petition (with explanation as to why).
The RP Team will reassess these rankings using the same methodology roughly every six months in real life time.

Ranking Category Descriptions:

Huge thank you to colonelvesica for providing us with these descriptions. They were extremely helpful and spot on to what we were thinking as a group.

No Power: These are nations that are barely able to keep control of their own borders, much less project their influence anywhere else. This is reserved entirely for the NPCs throughout Terra, unless the RP Team decides they are otherwise. No Player nation will EVER have this rating, again, unless the RP Team decides to RP a nation like this otherwise.

Small Power: Nations that have limited ability to defend themselves, but often are allied with larger and stronger states to ensure their continued independence or hyper isolationist. Their militaries are traditionally outdated, small, woefully trained, or a combination of all three. Its not uncommon for regional or greater powers to have substanial influences over these nations.

Middle Power: These are nations that are more then able to stand on their own and have the ability to defend themselves against other nations and their influences and can project their own influence to a very limited degree on their neighbors, although they will traditionally ally with greater nations, though more for reasons of cooperation and progress then an inability or worry to defend themselves in the world. Their militaries are usually modern, fairly well sized and trained or a combination of all three.

Regional Power: These are powerful nations that generally stand tall amongst their immediate neighbors, and more times often then not, are able to project their influence on them. While they have the capability to project their influence or power globally, it is limited and their power in primarily centred around home. Their militaries are generally modern, of sufficent size and training and have the ability to project themselves overseas of immediately against their neighbors.

Great Power: These are amongst the most powerful nations in the world, and have a great deal of influence both at home and abroad, with the ability to project their power globally, either politically, economically or militarily. They are generally considered regional hegemons in the absence of any other great powers. Their militaries are usually hyper modern, extremely well trained, usually quite large,and the ability to sufficently project considerable force overseas, though they are stronger closer to home. (Similar to the European Empires before WWI)

Superpower: The most powerful nations in the world, there are generally only two or three of them at any given time. Their influence and power, in politics, economics and military affairs are generally unchallenged in their respective direct spheres of influences and can adequately project that same power anywhere in the world at their will. Their militaries are always considered the most powerful, being hyper modern, very large, and extremely well trained and have the ability to rapidly deploy anywhere they chose. (Similar to the USSR and USA during the Cold War, or historically, the Holy Luthori and Hulstrian Empires)

Hyperpower: The unmatched political, economic and military hegemon of the world, their authority, power, and influence are unmatched and can project themselves anywhere they please at will without worry of serious reprisals or challenges. Their militaries are considered unmatched in anyway, from their training, equipment, and the sheer size of it. No nation in Particracy has ever obtained this and the only real world example of this is the British Empire at its absolute height.

Methodology:

The rankings below were developed first by generating two separate rankings:
Subjective ranking - we created an military ranking of all of the nations of Terra based on the educated opinions of all four members of the RP Team, as well as in consultation with colonelvesica and the OTAF. This ranking system took into account historical RP and play style, recent RP and play style, as well as general community opinion. This gave us a score for each nation.
Objective ranking (A great deal was based on the methods used at Global Firepower, while incorporating some elements from OTAF) - we created a ranking of all the nations of Terra by normalizing their GDPs (excluding those nations for which the economic system was never completed), correcting for those nations who "game the system" by spending unrealistic amounts of their GDP publically, incorporating each nation's economic ranking, looked at spending as a percentage of GDP in various areas relevant to military power (e.g. defense, infrastructure and transportation, and science and technology), looked at population, and then looked at the number of countries each country borders (excluding islands from the list). Finally we generated an aggregate score and used that in our calculations (Really, Polites did a lot of the work. You should thank him for it and his statistics abilities).
We then took these two rankings and averaged each nation's score in each. This gave us our final rankings, which you will see below. We feel that this methodology allowed us both to eliminate as much bias as possible while incorporating RP factors into the final rank, and also to utilize as much of the in-game system as was reasonably possible. It is because of this belief that we posted the warning above (in the FAQ section) that it is unlikely we will allow petitions to change our rankings at this juncture. We are very confident in this methodology.

Rankings (order within each category does not matter):

Great:

Indrala
Trigunia
Vanuku
Zardugal
Luthori
Dorvik



Regional:

Lodamun
Kafuristan
Rildanor
Hutori
Mikuni-Hulstria
Kalistan
Dundorf
Cobura


Middle:

Sekowo
Alduria
Rutania
Dankuk
Aloria
Saridan
Aldegar
Barmenia
Solentia
Darnussia and Narikaton
Tukarali
Telamon
New Endralon, Kizenia, and Kuzaki
Cildania
Deltaria
Beiteynu
Kazulia
Pontesi
Baltusia
Kundrati
Selucia
Kalopia/Wantuni
Hobrazia
Badara
Kirlawa


Small:

Kanjor
Gaduridos
Valruzia
Malivia
Beluzia
Egelion
Keymon
Lourenne
Mordusia
Talmoria
Ibutho
Davostan
Dolgaria
Endralon
Istalia
Jelbania
Likatonia
Jakania
Vorona-Deltaria Nova

No Power:


Commonwealth of North Dovani
Utari Mosir
Cifutingan
Istapali
Suyu Llaqta
New Englia
Ostland
New Verham (Argos & Cho'kun)
Midway
Liore (Lyore & Shiratoku)
Kurageri
Rapa Pile
Statrica
Bianjie
Utembo
Ntoto (South Aslistan)
Hanzen
Kimlien
Medina
Xsampa (New Mordusia)
New Alduria
Noumonde
Temania (Squibble)
Vanakalam (North Vascania)
Kalkalistan (South Vascania)
Dalibor
Last edited by Liu Che/Zhuli on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby colonelvesica » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:31 pm

I like it... also I'm actually quite flattered my ranking descriptions made it into the final product :oops:
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Zanz » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:34 pm

colonelvesica wrote:also I'm actually quite flattered my ranking descriptions made it into the final product :oops:


You shouldn't be surprised - they were good descriptions and they were very close to what we were considering, as well. I want to extend a thanks from the four of us to you for your help.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Duke Matthus » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:14 pm

This is great guys. I am actually a little surprised, but happy and not at all petitioning, that Luthori is still so high even after its fall...makes an old man proud that she can still kick.

Anyway, if I am trying to figure out military cost based of OTAF as a standard (I know it is not official), who should I talk with to make sure we are on the right path. While Luthori has not yet (as far as I know) passed the RP treaty it is something we will hopefully be taking a look at the treaty in the near future. For now, I just want to get some of the background work for our RPs (internal wise) done, so figuring out size of forces and cost would be very helpful. I have all my notes from before my departure on what I believed the cost was for our empire at its height (52,000,000,000 LPD for military alone) based of OTAF standards.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby colonelvesica » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:32 pm

Well I'm the Inspector General of the OTAF and we do have a thread in the organizations sub-forum plus I'd be more then willing to talk it over with you via PM, whichever works for you.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Zanz » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:22 pm

It might be a conversation worth having, at least in part, in public on the forum rather than in private messages. That way others can offer their advice, or learn what they might from the conversation. You could create a thread for it similar to the thread DocDunsmore recently made for Gaduridos.

Matthus, it's good to see you back and so apparently willing to work within the pretty heavily changed rules. A lot of the older crowd has been pretty disappointingly hostile toward the changes, and it'll be good to have someone with your RP experience working to show how Luthori can reassert itself in post-World War Terra... With the other powers recovering, I think it's not unreasonable that Luthori might reemerge as a player, even if it's been quiet recently.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Siggon Kristov » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:53 pm

Hmm... I'm surprised, but happy, that Lodamun remains highly-ranked in terms of perception of military strength.
Also, I'm glad to see a community effort going into developing these lists; it adds legitimacy, which is just further cemented by transparent methodology and Moderation's support.
Check out my latest Particracy project, and feel free to discuss it in the forums.
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Re: RP TEAM: Military rankings for use with the RP Accord

Postby Duke Matthus » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:30 pm

Zanz wrote: Matthus, it's good to see you back and so apparently willing to work within the pretty heavily changed rules. A lot of the older crowd has been pretty disappointingly hostile toward the changes, and it'll be good to have someone with your RP experience working to show how Luthori can reassert itself in post-World War Terra... With the other powers recovering, I think it's not unreasonable that Luthori might reemerge as a player, even if it's been quiet recently.


I am more or less happy to see some of the changes I advocated years ago be implemented (e.g. transferring of characters to keep monarchies alive). So happy to try my best at getting a more active Luthori out there (even if it is going to be here and there and behind the scenes until May).

I also like the suggestion of making it public, and once we figure our my notes (has been two years since I looked at them) we can create a thread to discuss what we are doing, which budget lines cost would fall under, and how we are calculating. My notes are written for Luthori at her height, so they are quite outdated. Still, this way everyone can see most of our moves...got to keep some information classified...never know which country Luthori may have to "liberate" someday from the daemons of Republicanism and Communism. :D
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