Jelbic cultural protocol affirmation

[Zanz]

Hey all, particularly the Jelbies...

Jelbania is in the process of affirming its protocols. I'd appreciate any feedback either here or on the bill.

There aren't too many changes from the previous protocols passed ~400 years ago. Actually, now that I look at how long ago that was, maybe more should change... Let me know.

Changes to BRIEF PRE GAME HISTORY:
Updated to not list the Jelbics as the indigenous inhabitants of the steppe. They migrated there from northern Seleya.

Changes to ETHNICITY:
Jelbek from 63% to 65%
Jelbanien from 15% to 12% (Underplayed and not important in Jelbic RP lately)
Majatrans from 11% to 9% (They're being sold off to slavers in Deltaria )
Deltarians from 6% to 9% (Increased interaction given treaty of Cachtice, Popov Accords, etc.)

Changes to LANGUAGE:
"Luthori" language redefined as "Luthoran/Luthori" because I dislike the word Luthori as a name for the language.

Changes to RELIGION:
Added Tanhrism as a defined term with an explanation that it's not counted in the census but syncretism is practice by most Steppe Jelbeks and many Settled Jelbeks.
Ahmadism from 59% to 57% (-1% from each of the subdivisions, due to shrinking of Majatran population).
Hosianism from 28% to 30% (+2% to Terran Patriarchal Church, due to increase in Deltarian population).

[SelucianCrusader]

Looks fine. However, if I were you, I'd scrap Jelbaniens entirely. No need for another white/Anglo-Saxon ethnic group, especially not in the middle of PT:s Central Asia. IMHO they were just a lenient way by Dynastia (I think?) of explaining the fact that some people had come to Jelbania RP'ed it as a White European for no good reason for ages.

There was a similar problem in Pontesi. For around 800 years, the Pntek had names like "Rose Taylor" and "Morton Scott" despite the fact they were supposedly Jelbic and should have had names like "Hzíamai Jezmrjmaisrmko Wrntukai"

Polites came up with this explanation in my thread:

Also, neither the old Bishopal Church nor its breaking communion with Luthori were really RPd, which might mean that those events were simply so minor that nobody paid any attention to them, and that Pnteks have, to their mind, always been faithful Eastern Hosians, no matter what their upper class and priests told them. Luthori influence could be akin to French influence in Eastern Europe in the 18th-19th-early 20th century (at least in what was to become Romania, as far as I'm aware), where the aristocracy spoke French and dismissed the local languages as fit only for peasants and servants, even without direct involvement by France. As soon as French stopped being the international language of prestige, Romanian aristocrats immediately stopped snobbishly immitating France.

If you don't want to scrap them entirely, maybe they could be represented as "Abuék Jelbékai", having Zardic influence or something like that?

Oh, and it would be lovely to get a short summary of Tanhrism on the wiki as well.

[Kubrick]

Perhaps not remove the Jelbaniens entirely, they have been RP'd at points. But I would say, cut the number in half. I think Reddy already RP'd diminishing their numbers greatly a while ago, but I'm not sure.

[Reddy]

I think you could remove most of them. During my half a billion slots in the Khanate, I regularly RPed them - the Wrntusrljikai who was poisoned by Beki Mandkh during the last Jelbic Zardic war was a Jelbanien and one of the Yabeks. So was the Beki's own paramour/top aide I also wrote them into Jelbanian history in a wiki article called 'Four Red Centuries' as colonists. And Kubrick is correct, I did move to reduce them a number of times.

There was an attempt to send them back to southern Seleya by Jack but it fell through. I am doing this by phone so I cannot provide links...PC blues.

I am not much of a fan of Cultural Protocols anymore but I have to say the presence of the Jelbaniens has caused lots of pain to us Jelbophiles especially when the country is empty. Some wily players who dislike the Jelbic culture have built numerous 'apartheid' regimes in the region, greatly damaging historical continuity.

I think we should have a different name for Majatrans and reduce if not remove all these Majatrans floating around every where, largely confine them to east and central Majatra.

[Aquinas]

I am not much of a fan of Cultural Protocols anymore but I have to say the presence of the Jelbaniens has caused lots of pain to us Jelbophiles especially when the country is empty. Some wily players who dislike the Jelbic culture have built numerous 'apartheid' regimes in the region, greatly damaging historical continuity.

Bear in mind the rules are stronger in this area than they used to be. Section 6, which deals with culture, is well worth reading in full, but I will quote these particular excerpts:

6.1 All role-play must respect the established cultural background in Culturally Protected nations.

6.1.1 The players in a nation have an individual and collective responsibility to be mindful of the nation's cultural complexion and take it into account in their role-play decisions. For example, it would usually be unreasonable for a party to present itself primarily as the representative of a minuscule ethnic or religious minority, since realistically such a party would be unlikely to win significant electoral support. Similarly, for example, in a nation split between 2 ethnic communities and with 4 players, it would be reasonable to have 2 cross-ethnic parties and an ethnic-based party for each ethnic group, but it would usually be unreasonable for all 4 parties to be ethnic-based parties representing the same ethnic group. In cases where too many parties belong to one cultural or religious group and Moderation is brought in to arbitrate, the onus will generally be on the more recently-established party to amend its identity.

6.1.2 Special care must be taken to ensure realism is maintained when role-playing a government controlled by an ethnic and/or religious minority. If it is to be supposed that this government is supported by a majority of the population, then this should be plausibly and sufficiently role-played. The burden of proof is on the player or players role-playing such a regime to demonstrate that it is being done realistically.

6.4 Character names and especially Head of State, Head of Government and Cabinet minister names must be appropriate for the cultural background of the nation.

Please remember it is the responsibility of players to ensure the candidate boxes on their Party Overview screens are filled in with appropriate names. If a player is allotted seats in a Cabinet bill and has not filled in names for the relevant candidate position, then the program will automatically fill in the positions with names which might not necessarily be appropriate for the Cultural Protocols.

Whilst a few character names may be permitted to come from small cultural minorities, the broad spread of a party's character names should be plausibly realistic. Exceptions to this will only be granted at Moderation's discretion and where a very strong case has been presented.

6.4.1 In nations where English is present as an in-game culture, but not the majority, English character names must not be too disproportionately prevalent. For example, if 10% of the population are English, English characters should not make up half of a party's Cabinet ministers or list of candidates. Exceptions to this will only be granted at Moderation's discretion and where a very strong case has been presented.

[Reddy]

I should have been clearer. I was more of reminiscing about the past really. The new rules have largely solved that issue as far as I can tell.

[Polites]

I also support scrapping them. After all that long time in Jelbania, and centuries since they've been the ruling class, they would've been assimilated and utterly indistinguishable from the settled Jelbeks.

On that note, I think we should distinguish the Jelbies from each other. They're all still based on Central Asians, but it seems each of them has a different emphasis. If Barmenia is Turko-Persian, Pontesi Caucasian, and Vanuku a more Europeanized/Germanized version of steppe peoples (I see it as culturally similar to RL Hungary, except for the language and symbolism), then Jelbania could be based on the Russified aspects of Central Asia. Of all the Jelbies, Jelbania would be most faithful to the present-day Stans, primarily because of Deltarian influence.

Yeah, we should find a new name for the Majatrans.

[Zanz]

I'll consider cutting the Jelbaniens some more, then - I'm a little nervous to remove them completely because I have a post-war RP idea that I can't decide if it'd benefit from the presence of a minority... I don't know, maybe I'll cut them and just create the minority arbitrarily IC like people do all the time IRL.

Glad to hear that we get the post-Soviet 'Stans... I studied them, I love them, it gives me the right to be Borat ICly, and also most of the new words I've been adding to Jelbek have been based on Uzbek stems.

I disagree re: Majatrans, at least on renaming them. I think they make IC sense given all the Caliphates and I think the name is fine - we've got a tendency to overcomplicate that I want to avoid.

[Zanz]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=462968

Updated. Redid the culture section to discuss the Jelbaniens a bit less and to tie them a bit more to the settled Jelbeks, and also cut their number from 12 to 5%. Increased Deltarians from 9 to 13% and increased Jelbeks from 65 to 68%. Also created a breakdown of the Jelbeks into Steppe vs. Settled, which will become important in my post-war RP.

Any thoughts?

[IdioC]

The Jelbaniens were the product of a party who randomly made Jelbania French then vanished before the Jelbic peoples as we know them came to be. They returned halfway through so I factored them in, but bar a brief resurgence would have been nigh on completely assimilated by now.

To use an RL analogy: You don't see anyone in the UK considering themselves Roman anymore... Perhaps if we can't kill them off they'd be sub 5% by now.