RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

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RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby Zanz » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:28 pm

BlueGold10 wrote:Also there's the fact that Barmenia is supposed to be a medium power and they have a Navy that could probably beat the USN...but I don't think Barmenia signed the RP Accords, so that might not be binding.


Numbers alone are not what I'm really concerned with, but you're correct that for nations which have not ratified the RP Accord the rankings are not binding - merely suggestions.



The RP Accord BlueGold is referring to is actually something different - see here and the link to the rules therein. The RP Accord is not tied directly to this conflict, but Barmenia hasn't yet ratified it. I suggest you consider doing so :) The bill you've linked was necessary for involvement in this RP specifically - and I've now linked it on the OP of this thread. Thanks!

Oakwood wrote:And Iran is a medium power in comparison to the U.S.; nonetheless in terms of quantity it has far more than I've even listed. All I've done IG is modernize them. They're building more as we speak, actually. However it is a moot point as I have edited the post to refocus the nations efforts back on Pontesi.


A couple of things - there is no "in comparison to the US" in Particracy. Medium powers in PT terms are described here. You're right, however, that it's entirely possible that a medium power in PT might have a larger navy, for instance, in sheer numeric terms, than a regional power might. It's the RP Team's opinion that numbers alone don't make RP. Good RP occurs when a nation and its players recognize the limitations of their own nation. Deltaria, for instance, has a ton of tanks - more than Vanuku in sheer number, but of poorer quality, and Vanuku recently ran the Jelbanians and Deltarians into the ground by feigning weakness and by technological prowess. ANYWAY, I appreciate you editing the post. I don't have much comment on the new post, and really didn't have much to say on the old one other than that "Pontesi has lost" doesn't leave much room for SelCru et. al. in Pontesi to have much fun! This is probably better.

ANYWAY, re: the World Congress...

Some of the issues I think that previous incarnations of things like this have been plagued by are 1) an inability to handle PT's fast moving timeline - organizations would set up elections of leadership every IG 5 years and crumble because who cares that much?! 2) a lack of understanding on the part of everyone of what such an organization could do.

I think to handle the first issue we should abandon the game's timeframe entirely. We can fluid time RP this stuff. I think elections of leadership either shouldn't happen at all (e.g. just use rotating leadership) or should happen maybe once monthly IRL. Since the RP Team was given sort of free reign to handle this organization by the rules, I think the most realistic setup would be to have the IC leadership rotate once every so often and, OOC, have members of the RP Team RP on behalf of whoever's the leadership when it's necessary. So say it's 4040 and Hutori is set to lead the WC... Kubrick (or any of us) could RP the Hutorian WC Director when the need arose. That way we're sure we'll have the active leadership that might be necessary, and we aren't preoccupied with elections and inactivity.

The second issue is a bit more nebulous. It's difficult to get even national legislation passed in PT, and supranational will surely be the source of some contention, particularly for players who for OOC reasons oppose supranationalism and who might not understand OOCly that we're trying to do this for fun. An interesting (but undeveloped) thought I had would be for the WC's resolutions to be handled similar to how NationState's World Assembly does this - someone could write up a treaty, we could debate it, vote on it as the WC, and then bring it to our nations to get it ratified there. If nations don't ratify, the rest of the WC would put pressure on them (by sanctions or whatever outlined in the bill) and the RP Team could take these sanctions, etc., into account when we do our rankings (e.g. if someone has been embargoed by WC nations for years because of failure to comply with resolutions, we would likely see that economy suffer)...

Just some preliminary thoughts. Any suggestions?
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Re: RP Planning Thread: Particracy's World War

Postby Duke Matthus » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:27 pm

Now that I have finished my Comps (God I hope I passed, I don't want to have to do them again), and Luthori is nearing completion on being restored (at least internally), I think we will be nearing a point in the future to once again to actually have a presence in the international community. We would be happy to join (putting the RP Accords up for a vote now) any WC that is formed after the current War, which looks like it has benefited Luthori not getting involved.

Anyway, Zanz proposal seems the most logical. If there is a "Security Council" element, that may be the best place to "run" the organization as (assuming there are) the presence of permanent members means that those states' players would be a little more stable than a rotating "Secretary-General." Sure, have the position, but I think leaving it to the RP team seems like the best solution.
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Re: RP Planning Thread: Particracy's World War

Postby colonelvesica » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:34 pm

As I recall there was talk of Security Council and permanent Members; Vanuku, Indrala, Trigunia, Kalistan and Hutori were the names floated around with the possibility of Dorvik or Luthori being a sixth member, anyone is more then free to correct me though.

I have no issue with the "Rotating Model" of Secretary Generals, we'll just keep track of whose in charge and add an local sounding name and let the RP Team handle the leadership so to speak.

I assume the SC PermaMembers will have veto powers?
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Re: RP Planning Thread: Particracy's World War

Postby Doc » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:04 pm

Kalistan would be happy to participate, but we are explicitly opposed to collective security arrangements, so that by definition precludes our participation in a security council if it is in anyway similar to the UN. It is a rare thing that we get involved in foreign wars, and we would balk at a requirement which forced us to do so on another country's behalf when we had no other compelling interests there.

I'll keep following this discussion, and perhaps we could find another role for Kalistan outside of collective security. We could be like a guaranteed neutral meeting ground for warring or rival Parties who want a neutral territory to hold peace agreements like Oslo or Generva... That would totally be within Kalistan's RP portfolio.
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Re: RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby Aquinas » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:23 pm

I've taken the liberty of splitting this off into a new thread.
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Re: RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby Iestwyn » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:06 pm

This is a fascinating discussion! I'm a new player, and do not have a significant presence in my nation of Pontesi, but I would personally be interested in participating in this World Council if SelCru is.

In addition, there has been talk of forming a Majatran Union headquartered in Pontesi. It would be interesting to see relations between such international organizations and a World Council, somewhat like the European Union and the United Nations.

If you're interested in observing or participating in the discussion about this Majatran Union, feel free to check out this thread: (http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6644) Hope you're having a good day!
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Re: RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby kylejenkins27 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:51 pm

So other than promoting global peace what would be the purpose and goals of this World Congress?

Heres just some ideas i was thinking please add input:

A security council composed of the most powerful nations in the world, especially the major powers in the current war. They should have one treaty to be ratified by them maybe holding them to a different set of standards.

Then for other participating nations in the World Congress maybe a separate treaty that holds them to different standards like banning nuclear weapons or producing nuclear weapons (every nation shouldnt be powerful enough to have an arsenal anyway. Controlling international arm sales.

The security council should be able to hold votes on sanctioned use of force, after they approve use of force against a nation then the entirety of the world congress should vote to move foward or kill the motion.

Any member should be able to call for a vote to place santions on another nation.

Thoughts?????
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Re: RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby Iestwyn » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:39 pm

I really like all those ideas, Kyle. Obviously this World Congress wouldn't be able to serve all the purposes of the RL UN---not only would it be impractical and boring to debate and ratify most international laws, but doing so might override the sovereignty of the nations themselves, overriding PT's goal as a national political simulator.

It seems that current thoughts are leaning towards the World Congress acting as a way for nations to settle disputes with the least amount of force. That makes sense---that's one of the main reasons the UN was founded. In order to fulfill that purpose, we would need (1) a list of actions a nation could take that would earn WC consequences, (2) a "ladder" of actions the WC/SC can take to gradually put pressure on the offender (e.g. condemnations, sanctions, peacekeeping operations), and (3) a process for nations to call for and vote on what actions the WC should take.

I feel like it might be appropriate for the WC to have additional functions. Perhaps it could also serve the function of the RL World Bank / IMF, helping less-developed nations to achieve more economic and social growth? Again, that could either take away from national sovereignty, or it could provide more elements for nations to RP with.
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Re: RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby kylejenkins27 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:41 pm

I'd like to see the World Congress maybe work with the International Terran Bank, the most widely used international bank already, perhaps the ITB could be reorganized for this purpose?
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Re: RP Planning Thread: "World Congress"/UN-style organisation

Postby Iestwyn » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:58 pm

That might work. The ITB could be like the IMF, offering funds and loans in exchange for nations promoting economic growth.

...But that still doesn't quite work. That would pressure countries to actively change IG legislation, which would interfere with players who aren't interested in RP. The SC, however, almost exclusively deals with RP issues, making it possible to leave people alone who just want to play the actual game.

I guess the main thing is that I'm still new enough that I don't know where the boundaries are with regard to RP. There are many, many possibilities with the WC and ITB, but which ones are chosen depend on how well they'll operate IG and through RP.
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