Brmek Zardugal (as it currently exists)

[Oakwood]

Below (shown in blue) is the Barmenian Empire in Zardugal (also known as Brmek Zardugal, and Zardic Empire). Begun as a perfectly legitimate RP with the consent of the nation of Zardugal...it more or less collapsed following the death of various parties in the strife torn nation. However, prior to that, I had already gained a substantial amount of territory, and so here is my proposal:

1. The recognition (IG, in the wiki) of a Barmenian created Zardic Empire based around the concept of the English Kingdom of France.

2. The recognition therein of the map as shown below.

3. The recognition of the RP as it was started and subsequently finished prior to the attempted turniquet.



While I accept that no nation can be forced to RP.....there WAS no force here. They said yes and I complied. I merely wish for resolution.

[Zanz]

I'm unclear - has there been some upset somewhere, is someone refusing to recognize what occurred? What has prompted this post?

[Oakwood]

Yes; Palerider and his government are acting like that RP never even HAPPENED. All I ask is that the RP be recognized and that the border be rectified thusly; in return, we can have it so that the Barmenians withdraw with the Emperor's death. However....I don't believe the Zardic's should be able to go "No...it totally didn't happen."

To be clear: technically the Barmenians occupied the entire nation and are more or less at war with the now rogue Zardic forces. Nonetheless, Belgae was taken as was the rest Endiraho. However, as a means of cooperation with Palerider, I have presented this map so as to be in line with his posts thus far. I'll just RP it as the Barmenians withdrawing following the Seige of Belgae and fall of the First Federal Government during the civil war. We can have this period be like the beginning of the cold war.

[Zanz]

That being the case my advice to you is that posting publicly on the forum may not be the best way to get the issue solved. I know the temptation is there to attempt to use the opinion of the community to pressure someone into playing along with you, but often a thread like this will feel like you're trying to corner someone.

I assume you've attempted to work this out with Pale in private, and I assume that the fact you're posting here implies that you're still unhappy. If you feel that you can't reach an agreement with Pale and the current Zardic players, you can always reach out to Moderation - but you should be ready, in case the ruling comes in against your position.

Anyway, hope you can work it out so that all parties can find enjoyment. Let me know if I can help mediate in any way.

[Oakwood]

Well I mean, I'm not trying to corner him or anyone. At this point I'm just a tad annoyed at the complete stonwalling I have gotten on this issue from Pale and others despite multiple attempts to resolve it. I merely want this resolved at this point. Even if it comes out against me, it will still be better because at least I will have gotten a response.

[Oakwood]

I've decided to at least post an OOC bill presenting the map on my nation page. It might be petty....but it makes me feel better regarding the fact that I actually wasted thinking time on plotlines for what might be a dead end.

[PaleRider]

I have been wrestling with trying to think of a proper solution. It would be easiest to simply retcon the whole thing since it doesn't appear to have impacted much but that doesn't seem entirely fair.

Perhaps the best course of actions would be to simply have it resolved in the past without it affecting the future. A peace could've been reached where the Occupation ends in exchange for an indemnity being paid?

[Oakwood]

I have this solution; what if, after ruling from the period of the initial victory (we would have to go back and find the date) until about ten years after that (it's been a while), a treaty was signed for withdrawl on the following premise:

1. The Allodial title and all properties thereof would be leased back to the Zardic government of the Federation (formerly known as the rebellion) in exchange for annual payments of 8.5 billion Zardugals per month, until such time as the amount should reach 10,000,000,000,000 ZAR.

2. Until such time as the amount of indemnity may be payed in full, the government of Zardugal may take the following actions to delay and defer the course of payment:

a) The partition and conversion of debt in the form of Treasury bonds, issued by the Zardic government to the Barmenian government.

b) The securitzation of loans, in accordance with the Brmk Bank, for the purpose of making payments in order to avoid default or seizure of the deed of Allodial.

c) The issuance of declarations of Easement and Life estate (in case of the latter, the government of Zardugal must convey when they plan to transfer the property)

3. From the period of withdrawl until the time of payment on the amount as previously agreed, the Alloldial title shall be held as a defeasible interest by the Brmk Bank. It shall be declared a concurrent estate, with specific emphasis made on it being a future interest on the part of the government of Zardugal. Should the government of Zardugal at any time collapse or else declare that they cannot fulfill their obligations, it shall agreed that the land is thereby declared a leasehold estate. In that condition, it shall be deemed life estate, and the land shall be returned to the posession of the Barmenian government within a period of fifty years.

[PaleRider]

I have this solution; what if, after ruling from the period of the initial victory (we would have to go back and find the date) until about ten years after that (it's been a while), a treaty was signed for withdrawl on the following premise:

1. The Allodial title and all properties thereof would be leased back to the Zardic government of the Federation (formerly known as the rebellion) in exchange for annual payments of 8.5 billion Zardugals per month, until such time as the amount should reach 10,000,000,000,000 ZAR.

2. Until such time as the amount of indemnity may be payed in full, the government of Zardugal may take the following actions to delay and defer the course of payment:

a) The partition and conversion of debt in the form of Treasury bonds, issued by the Zardic government to the Barmenian government.

b) The securitzation of loans, in accordance with the Brmk Bank, for the purpose of making payments in order to avoid default or seizure of the deed of Allodial.

c) The issuance of declarations of Easement and Life estate (in case of the latter, the government of Zardugal must convey when they plan to transfer the property)

3. From the period of withdrawl until the time of payment on the amount as previously agreed, the Alloldial title shall be held as a defeasible interest by the Brmk Bank. It shall be declared a concurrent estate, with specific emphasis made on it being a future interest on the part of the government of Zardugal. Should the government of Zardugal at any time collapse or else declare that they cannot fulfill their obligations, it shall agreed that the land is thereby declared a leasehold estate. In that condition, it shall be deemed life estate, and the land shall be returned to the posession of the Barmenian government within a period of fifty years.

I would prefer something a little more cut and dry since so much time has passed since the RP tapered off. From where things stood, the monarchical forces clearly had the advantage but with long lines of communications and solid Zardic interior, i imagine some sort of stalemate took hold. Naturally, various Zardic nationalist resistance movements would spring up, making the occupation more difficult.
I would then argue that there was a largely static front, and maybe a successful Zardic offensive or two which might have shifted the war in Zardugal's favor, considering how powerful Zardugal historically is. I would propose the following peacew:
1. Evacuation of all foreign forces from Zardic soil.
2. Renunciation to the Throne by the Royal Family.
3. Over a period of 10 years, 50 billion in reparations to be paid by Zardugal to Barmenia; 10 billion paid over five years to compensate the former Royal Family.
4. Return of borders to the status quo ante.

Again, the elapse of several decades in game leads to much speculation of how the RP would have resolved itself. I would ask for the most flexibility on negotiating a settlement, and the least possible impact given how unresolved the effort is. I say peace should have come about around 3980 maybe?

[Oakwood]

Remember, the Barmenian military is not full of slackers; furthermore, it had (and has) the capacity, due to the nature of the war to simply keep going and putting down those revolts. However, given the nature of the cold war style situation we would have likely found ourselves in (though, I agree, we will never know) I propose the following:

1. Evacuation of all foreign forces from Zardic soil.
2. Renunciation to the Throne by most of the Royal Family with the exception of the direct line of Emperor Calixtus and his heir. This line will end should that heir produce not issue.
3. Over a period of 10 years, 60 billion in reparations to be paid by Zardugal to Barmenia; 10 billion paid over five years to compensate the former Royal Family.
4. Return of borders to the status quo ante.
5. 10 billion fund, to be contributed to by both sides, to pay refugees of the respective nations (both former and current).

I can agree on it ending near 3980. Lets make the offical end of the Zardic Empire 3985 for historical purposes (though note, these last five years are largely organizational).