RP Team & RP Accord rankings feedback

[Doc]

Two questions:

1) Is this update still going forward?
2) Are you all getting any input from anyone?

If yes and no, Kalistan's input is:

1) Our military ranking will not have changed, as I have been RPing it along the lines of the ranking. We have a standing national military, supplemented by paramilitary and Party militia, as well as a coastal defense navy with limited (though existing) projection power.
2) I would say our economic ranking has not changed much either. We have great national industries and a fantastic infrastructure, though I would say we have not transitioned from a heavy industry, export based economy to a service based economy of the "post-industrial" north. We are politically and economically stable, and occasionally subsidize our industries to protect them from external changes in commodity prices. We do have a fantastic amount of money socked away due to our aversion to national debt and borrowing from foreign lenders, but our national industries in oil, steel, and drugs are still humming, and will be for the foreseeable future, so there is no pressure at all to change. I am about to begin RPing a major modernization of our industries, so they will likely be with Kalistan into the future.

Military News (partial):
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=90#p96358
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=100#p96551
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=110#p96892
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=120#p97465
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=130#p98262
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=130#p98282
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=160#p99681

Economic News (partial)
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=90#p96336
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=100#p96468
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=100#p96576
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=130#p97761
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=130#p97892
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&start=130#p98312
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6422&p=96668#p96668
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6664&p=100576#p99856

That is Kalistan's report.

Peace,
Doc

[Polites]

1) Is this update still going forward?2) Are you all getting any input from anyone?

The answer is indeed yes and no. Thank you for your input, it's very useful and detailed and we'll definitely incorporate it into the final update, which will come soon.

[Doc]

No problem.

And, I expect these initiatives to pass as well, modernizing our infrastructure and military, by the end of the year.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=92&p=103045#p103045

[colonelvesica]

Hey there everyone.

I'm almost done work on preliminary rankings of all nations however if you have a specific case for your nation to be improved or reduced please do so now

FYI - the RP Team will be adding in two additional rankings which will ultimately impact what rankings other nations have.

Economics Rankings will be slightly changed; Underdeveloped has been replaced by Very Low Development. Low and Medium have been retained but High has been divided into High and Very High.

Similar to the military rankings your economic ranking is not only the RP Team's judgement on how strong your economy is but how much influence your economy has globally. Very Low Development (Colonies basically) have no influence anywhere outside of their nations and are often basket cases where as Very High Development have adverse affects on the global economy, if a massive economic blow happens to a Very High Development Economy the reverberations are global across Terra.

Military hasn't been changed other then the Official introduction of the Superpower Status which we had previously offered a description of. No Nations will start off Superpowers but maybe deemed Superpowers based on their Role Play going forward.

[CCP]

This will be Hawu Mumenhes's first time in the rankings. It will be ranked differently from Ibutho, not as the same country, right?

It's only ever been RPed as an advanced high-income economy and an expansionist military power. Will the rankings be consistent with that?

[colonelvesica]

Alright folks, the RP Team has finally finished it's discussions on the economic rankings and we promise the next update will be faster then the first.

We have added an additional Economic Ranking of Very High Development and Renamed Underdeveloped to simple Very Low Development. Nations in the Very Low category are exclusively the former Colonies unless a nation wants to willing to lower their rank to that or someone RPs the colony well enough to bring it kicking and screaming into the modern era.

Very High Development are considered top tier economic giants and their economies have a disproportionate amount of influence on global economics matters; issues that occur in these economies can have global repercussions.

ECONOMIC RANKINGS

VERY LOW DEVELOPMENT

Bianjie
Cifutingan
Dalibor
Degalogesa
Hanzen

Istapali
Kimlien
Kurageri
Liore
Medina

Midway
New Alduria
New Englia
New Verham
North Dovani

Noumonde
Ntoto
Ostland
Rapa Pile
Statrica

Suyu Llaqta
Temania
Tropica
Utari Mosir
Utembo

Vanakalam
Xsampa


LOW DEVELOPMENT

Baltusia
Deltaria
Dolgaria
Egelion
Gaduridos

Hobrazia
Jakania
Jelbania
Kalopia
Kanjor

Likatonia
Malivia
Mordusia
Talmoria
Valruzia

Vorona


MEDIUM DEVELOPMENT

Aldegar
Alduria
Badara
Barmenia
Beiteynu

Beluzia
Cildania
Darnussia
Davostan
Dundorf

Endralon
Hawu Mumenhes
Hulstria
Kirlawa
Kundrati

Lourenne
Pontesi
Saridan
Selucia
Solentia

Tukarali


HIGH DEVELOPMENT

Aloria
Cobura
Dankuk
Dorvik
Istalia

Kafuristan
Kazullia
Keymon
Lodamun
Luthori

New Endralon
Rildanor
Rutania
Sekowo
Telamon

Zardugal


VERY HIGH DEVELOPMENT

Hutori
Indrala
Kalistan
Trigunia
Vanuku

Any questions, concerns or comments by all means feel free to lodge them; we will attempt to explain the method.

Military Rankings will be out tomorrow hopefully

[CCP]

I have questions and concerns based on my post above.

[colonelvesica]

And we can of course answer them.

Hawu Mumenhes is a realitively young nation, not even a century old. It for the most part hasn't had time to flesh itself out yet. The RP Team acknowledges your work in the nation but we also have seen you have acknowledged the fact your nation is former Ibutho. That was a realitively undeveloped nation, economically speaking, and highly isolationist until the Coburian Monarchy took control and even then, Ibutho/Hawu Mumenhes was still realitively insular.

We have acknowledged your work in developing the nation, which is why it's a Medium Development nation, in terms of economic means and with further RP and development we may even consider bumping it up another grade in the next ranking cycle, which should come when the new Cultural Era begins in January, should you work in development continue.

I think I can speak on behalf of the RP Team that we applaud the dedicated work you've put into HM and look forward to seeing how you'll continue developing it and the Ensinsindu Empire that you have going.

Should you have any specific questions or concerns by all means Present them and we will happily hear them, and provide specific RP examples, if you believe we may have erred to help build your case.

[CCP]

Thanks for that substantive explanation, Vesica. I disagree with hinging the decision on a continuity between Ibutho to Hawu, because with the exception of a minority population, no continuity exists. Just fyi, I only mentioned Ibutho in Hawu's CP to avoid too great a jolt to the map and the game as a whole, not to suggest that they were the same country (in fact, avoiding association with Ibutho was the whole point of the new country). On the other hand, when Aquinas started Ibutho in former Ikradon, no one insisted that Ibutho had to be a rich global empire because Ikradon once had been. I see now mentioning Ibutho in the CP is allowing Hawu to be penalized by association, which should not be the case. A few important points:

#1. Hawu RP has never asserted or referenced the developmental transition economy that you assert in your explanation on behalf of the RP team. That is your projection. Since both Hawu players and foreign countries who have RPed with Hawu have RPed and accepted it as a new, advanced economy that began with a clean slate when the CP was originally passed, how can the RP team then project an Ibutho-as-dead-weight penalty when no such thing has ever been mentioned in any RP? It changes your methodology from one driven by the players (Objective Ranking = budget expenditures + Subjective Ranking = player RP) to one driven by the RP team.

#2. Penalizing Hawu for its recent founding doesn't survive comparison to real world examples. Not 50 years ago, China was a closed economy characterized by uniform abject poverty. Today it is nominally the world's second economy. The United States went from a low population settler colony with unexploited resources in the 18th century to a great power not 100 years later (and its status as the successor state of the Native American governments it supplanted was not taken to be a drag on the US economy -- the US was not assumed to be poor because some Native American countries had been).

#3. Desiring that Hawu "flesh itself out" before ranking it as High Development (which is what it is RPed as) isn't an equal standard because most nations in the High Development ranking have had no significant economic RP since the last RP Team ranking. That means some countries are being taken as a certain ranking based on mere assertion and assumed economic inertia while in this case it's being suggested that Hawu should detail its economy developmentally and step by step.

For those reasons, I think Hawu is ranked one level too low here. But because you plan to update the rankings in January, I will speak with the other empire players about how best to prepare for your next rankings and will not ask for a change in ranking for this version.

Thanks for maintaining these rankings -- you all are doing a very useful service for the game.

[Aquinas]

On the other hand, when Aquinas started Ibutho in former Ikradon, no one insisted that Ibutho had to be a rich global empire because Ikradon once had been.

Just to make a small point here...I began the Zulu/Ibutho role-play in December 2013, which was before the Role-Play Accord came into being in January 2016. ie. At the time, there was no RP Team/RP Accord in existence to (theoretically) ask me not to role-play Ibutho as an economically under-developed nation.

Also bear in mind that since your nation has not ratified the RP Accord, you and the other players are not bound by it. ie. There is nothing in terms of the Game Rules or the RP Accord to stop you role-playing Hawu Mumenhes as as an economically and/or militarily advanced power.