Cultural Protocol system reform (was Questions & Requests)

[xionSoyYo]

Hi! I'm xion, and I think I talk on behalf of all the players in Mikuni-Hulstria, and, to some extent, a significant portion of the hispanic community when I say this.

First of all, we are obviously going to follow the cultural protocol, but I think you are being a bit unfair when you ask us to switch countries, because we are all friends, mostly centre-left to far-left, and we saw Mikuni-Harusutoria as the perfect country to establish our communist utopia (centre-left, and also with little to no activity). And it is in the latter point that I want to focus on, if Mikuni-Harusutoria is most of the time inactive, why preventing a group of avid role-players to role-play where they do no harm? M-H may not have such an interesting cultural protocol, after all, with that inactivity record. Have you seen Egelion? It has 4 parties and it's in a low point since PD, CN, and PR left the game (and the PR has expressed me his desire to come again), Gaduridos has EIGHT parties, we can't even enter there.

There is being an influx of hispanic players into the game, thanks to a popular politics-based web promoting it, so you should expect an even bigger influx of Spaniards into the game in months to come, which, by the way, should be please you. Are you going to keep telling us to go to 2 nations, one of them full, and the other an accurate representation of Spain in the 1940's (ultraconservatism included)?

We could go to another nation, but no one is better than M-H, we do no harm here, we could role play a gradual change in the demografics, a major event in other country (they are establishing a communist regime in Egelion, we could trigger a civil war and use it as a pretext for a wave of poor, desperate Egelians fleeing into our country seeking help). We could stablish a Filipino-based community, with Spanish, Austrian and Japanese minorities. There are just so many things we could do rather than forcing a whole community to go to countries they don't like so we can have a bunch of unplayable nations.

You might not like our ideas, and we will surely follow the rules, but all I'm asking you is to be open, think outside the box, and seek for a compromise. But, above all, accept the reality: some cultures are overrepresented, and Hispanic is, by no means, one of them.

[Aquinas]

At this precise moment I don't have time to say very much, but I've moved this post from the Moderation sub-forum to General Discussion, because really this is a broader debate about the game, rules reform and so on.

As most of you would expect, Hulstria's Cultural Protocol remains in force and there will be no immediate changes here, but I welcome any discussion about the issues that have been raised.

One other thing: welcome to Particracy, guys! Great to have you here and I hope you'll be stay with us for some time to come.

[Aquinas]

Now I've some time to respond in a little more detail...

First of all, special thanks to those players in Hulstria who have been so quick to comply with the Cultural Protocol requirements there - that's really appreciated. Also, of course, it is fantastic to hear we could be about to receive a group of new players, and I hope very much they'll enjoy it here.

I completely understand the sense you may feel that given the nation was empty when you joined it, it seems unfair to be expected to comply with a set of culture rules which you'd rather not have. You're not unusual in this - quite a few players (especially new players) have this reaction.

To give you the other side of the argument, I would point out that although Hulstria's Cultural Protocol may not be so popular with the group of players who have just arrived there, it is important to a number of other players in the Particracy community - several of whom play in Hulstria from time to time (even if they're not present there right now). Some of these players would feel they were losing something if the continuity of Hulstria's story was "disrupted" by an abrupt change to a very different culture.

Another point to consider is that although the Cultural Protocol system might seem limiting to you at the moment, there could come a time in the future when you would appreciate it being there. For example, if you and your friends left a nation for a short while, it could give you a guarantee that during your absence, another player could not turn up and introduce dramatic cultural changes.

I notice there are some player slots available in Egelion, which has a Spanish-themed Cultural Protocol, and also in Gaduridos, which is Culturally Open but does have a Spanish history/tradition. Your friends could consider going to one of the other Culturally Open nations (you can see them listed at the Cultural Protocols Index). In time, you could think about introducing a Cultural Protocol of your own into one of the Culturally Open nations, under the terms of section 17 of the Game Rules.

Anyway, I hope this has given you something to think about. Any questions/ideas, then please fire away!

[Liu Che/Zhuli]

Indeed, I would be considered an "affected" player should Mikuni-Hulstria/Gao-Soto/Gishoto's CP's change to reflect Spain. First of all, I think changes are unnecessary because there are a host of open nations to flock too where a "new Spain" would make more sense. Dovani, while diverse, largely maintains an Asiatic/Indigenous culture. That general cohesiveness and reality would be broken with the systematic eradication of the Japanese aspects of the CP's. Even gradual cultural, ethnic, and linguistic change would be difficult to achieve quickly (less than hundreds of years) without the support of Egelion (funneling people in) and/or genocide. These are valid, but there would be international consequences that would be hard to ignore, especially if realism would be maintained.

Second, you would be risking hostility with numerous players. We all know how that can go. It isn't productive nor does it make the game enjoyable. Best to avoid unnecessary changes.

Last, and quite frankly, the complaints about Egelion are meaningless. Egelion doesn't have to be stuck in Franco era Spain. You and your leftist friends can change it, quite a bit more easily than changing MH, in a rather effective fashion by dominating the others.

[Vihesito]

I think we have been misunderstood. The fact that we're Spanish doesn't mean that we want to play a rol based on Spanish history or culture. My first question on the Cultural Protocol was due to the fact that the Mikuni-Hulstrian is pretty difficult to catch on by a newplayer. And —I think I have read it on the Rules— the lore should be easy to understand for everyone. In my humble opinion, we would be doing a favour to all players if it could get simplified.

Let me know if I'm wrong, but I think we could simply write a Cultural Protocol update with our proposal so it is checked by mods. This way we could see if we can achieve a compromise.

[Liu Che/Zhuli]

Oh, by all means simplify it. Apologies for any misunderstandings on my end.

[SelucianCrusader]

I do somewhat empathise with the new players and their feelings. Although the FAQ is there for everyone to read and so on, it isn't fun to come to a place and realise you have to adjust whatever original plans you had for a reason which doesn't seem obvious (people who aren't in the country in question).

The country of Dankuk - back then known as Dranland - was one of the greatest places this game ever had, maybe the only nation where PT was really played as it was intended to. Big part of this was - and this must be emphasised - the variety of its lore (Welsh, Filipinos, Koreans and Norweigans in one state) which stimulated creativity - the other one was its relative openness thanks to its fluid cultural character and welcoming players of course. The news thread with 333 pages (most others have 20-40) stands as a monument to the glory that once was.

Since it's revision into an (almost) purely Korean state it's been rather quiet, and only had one continuously active player. With all respect for Ryouta and his contributions but I can't help thinking that maybe it was better of as it was before from a community survival-standpoint.

As for this country in question, Gishoto (yeah, we veterans can't even agree on the proper name of the country) has for decades - save when remnants from the Dranland team showed up there - been almost empty for years apart from the times when CaptainSocialist and maybe a few of his friends show up. The language is very interesting and I appreciate a lot of his work. But it's not easy to get your head around. It's not hard to feel that a well-thought-out simplification of some protocols are needed to make it easier for everyone to start playing there.

Yet, on the other side of the coin, Gishoto has played a huge role historically in the lore and what goes on there if course affects a lot more than just its own players. Turning cultural protocols into void (which is the consequence of the "cultural eras" idea) has the potential to create huge holes in the lore and potentially screw a lot of the roleplaying part of the game. I like to think that there is some sort of "middle way" that allows for a gradual cultural shift (only natural since the game spans over thousand of years) without either destruction nor stagnancy of RP. Aquinas allowed me to do quite big revisions of the Pontesian CP (back when it had those lol) worked out together with other veterans and I intended to go down further down the simplification road realising how the country lacked players for most of the time, and maybe only me, Polities and Reddy really got our heads around all of the details.

Aquinas has also previously hinted that nations with an English language name tend to get more new players than those without. This makes me wonder if scrapping the requirement of having a nation's name in one of the culturally protected would do it any well. If people instinctively feel put of by non-English language names maybe they miss the opportunity to discover its lore and actually find it interesting?

[MichaelReilly]

Aquinas has also previously hinted that nations with an English language name tend to get more new players than those without. This makes me wonder if scrapping the requirement of having a nation's name in one of the culturally protected would do it any well. If people instinctively feel put of by non-English language names maybe they miss the opportunity to discover its lore and actually find it interesting?

This.

This is a genuinely good idea and will help to reverse the trend of new players heading towards English countries.

[Aquinas]

Aquinas has also previously hinted that nations with an English language name tend to get more new players than those without. This makes me wonder if scrapping the requirement of having a nation's name in one of the culturally protected would do it any well. If people instinctively feel put of by non-English language names maybe they miss the opportunity to discover its lore and actually find it interesting?

This.

This is a genuinely good idea and will help to reverse the trend of new players heading towards English countries.

My general observation is that one of the advantages of a nation having a non-English nation title is that it is a good way of communicating to unfamiliar players that the nation has a non-English character. This means they are better able to make an informed choice. ie. If they want an English nation, they will tend to go to a nation with an English nation title. Also, if a new player is interested in a particular culture, they are more likely to go to the nation which uses that culture's language in its nation title. And so, for example, someone who wants to RP German might go to Dundorf, or someone who wants to RP Italian might go to Istalia, and so on.

As some of you will recall, a while back Wouter very kindly agreed to implement some requests I put to him, in order to make it clearer to new players that some nations have specific cultural requirements. The Main Page includes links to the Game Rules and Cultural Protocols Index, and the Nations of Terra page includes a link to the Cultural Protocols Index, as does the Registration page. I also amended/updated the FAQ and the Tutorial, so they include basic information about the game, like the culture rules.

In short, I think it would be fair to say the game interface is more helpful to new players than it used to be, and I definitely find I am less likely now to need to message new players to ask them to conform with Cultural Protocols. However, despite this, to be honest I get the feeling quite a number of new players rely on "instinct" when they first join the game, if you see what I mean, rather than researching all of the available information in detail first. So if we allowed non-English nations to have English nation titles, I would be concerned about the risk this could lead to more players ending up in nations which are not best suited for them (ie. players who want to role-play English parties going to non-English nations).

Another argument for keeping nation titles in the culturally relevant language is that it helps to make sure the nation's culture is reflected in at least one important place in the Nation Overview page. Bear in mind that under the Game Rules, both party names and the key constitutional variables (eg. Head of State title, legislative assembly title, etc.) can be presented in English (although in non-English nations, they are presumed to be translations from the culturally appropriate language). If even the nation titles could be in English, the complaint we would hear is "Our nation is meant to be Culturally Protected, but there is no sign of our culture anywhere on our Nation Overview page!"

What I have previously considered doing is resetting the nation titles of nations which have just become Culturally Open to their core name (eg. "Pontesi", "Darnussia", "Kanjor" etc.). The advantage of doing this might be that it would help to communicate to new players that the nation has no specific enforced culture. But on balance I came down against doing that, on the grounds that some players would experience this as heavy-handed. eg. A player who is already disappointed by a nation having its Cultural Protocol removed might be further alienated by Moderation removing the native language in its nation title.

[Aquinas]

As for this country in question, Gishoto (yeah, we veterans can't even agree on the proper name of the country) has for decades - save when remnants from the Dranland team showed up there - been almost empty for years apart from the times when CaptainSocialist and maybe a few of his friends show up. The language is very interesting and I appreciate a lot of his work. But it's not easy to get your head around. It's not hard to feel that a well-thought-out simplification of some protocols are needed to make it easier for everyone to start playing there.

During the first Cultural Era (January to May this year), Hulstria/Gishoto did not affirm its Cultural Protocol, but was allowed to retain its Culturally Protected status on condition that it adopt a Cultural Protocol that was simpler and more accessible. As a result, its Cultural Protocol changed from this to this. I do not know whether the current Cultural Protocol is entirely your cup of tea or not, but it is probably easier for an unfamiliar player to grasp than what was there before.