PARTICRACY CULTURE REFORMS CONSULTATION

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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Phil Piratin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:29 pm

It is very, very easy to side with Moderation and assume they've been angels, and assume anyone who disagrees with them is the villain. Those who are more aware of the situation, and have looked at it intelligently, seriously and in detail, will appreciate, I hope, why it is that I have made the points that I have made. I have not made personal attacks upon anybody, nor am I a "maverick". When this discussion is resumed, I hope it will be in a calmer atmosphere, and that Moderation will conduct itself in a more balanced and professional way than it has here. There have, as some will be aware, been a lot of problems, some of which have been in public, and others in private.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Polites » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:25 am

To be clear, we're postponing the consultation on this rule because it's occupied a disproportionate amount of time and effort while there are many other reforms we've put forward for debate. It's clear now that this is a very emotionally charged issue for many people, and we should have anticipated that and introduced this proposal separately. I will urge everyone to not cast the blame on anyone for this delay - it's a potentially drastic change we are proposing and it should have been obvious from the start this would take up the bulk of discussion on the proposed rules.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Phil Piratin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:12 pm

Contrary to what has been suggested, I have NOT attempted to "launch a revolt" against Moderation, although the way Moderation has handled the consultation has meant that anybody who puts too much effort into making constructive and reasonable arguments against the proposal is given that smear.

Nor have I somehow been "emotional" during the course of this consultation. Anybody who bothers to intelligently read it through will see that contrary to what is being claimed, I have in fact been serious and conscientious with my contribution throughout. Nor have I engaged in any personal attacks. It is unfortunate that some people automatically equate principled opposition to centralising culture with a personal attack on the very small group of individuals who would get to hold all of that power under that proposed system.

Yesterday I received a message from a Moderator directly accusing me of being responsible for the consultation's postponement, and later a much more serious one informing me that Moderation have been considering banning me from the game as result of my contributions to this consultation.

It is more than obvious that this is not a fair and genuine consultation, because of the unbalanced way in which Moderation have managed and engaged in it, and also because of their application of grossly unfair and inappropriate pressure on players who oppose the proposal. This has forced me to leave the game and to relinquish my New Englia project, which I am very sad to do, as I had devoted a lot of time and energy into it, and had a lot of plans for. It is quite obviously impossible to remain under these circumstances.

I VERY strongly advise anybody who objects to Moderation's proposal to centralise control of culture in its hands NOT to participate in any future consultation at any significant length.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Auditorii » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:23 pm

Phil Piratin wrote:Contrary to what has been suggested, I have NOT attempted to "launch a revolt" against Moderation, although the way Moderation has handled the consultation has meant that anybody who puts too much effort into making constructive and reasonable arguments against the proposal is given that smear.

Nor have I somehow been "emotional" during the course of this consultation. Anybody who bothers to intelligently read it through will see that contrary to what is being claimed, I have in fact been serious and conscientious with my contribution throughout. Nor have I engaged in any personal attacks. It is unfortunate that some people automatically equate principled opposition to centralising culture with a personal attack on the very small group of individuals who would get to hold all of that power under that proposed system.

Yesterday I received a message from a Moderator directly accusing me of being responsible for the consultation's postponement, and later a much more serious one informing me that Moderation have been considering banning me from the game as result of my contributions to this consultation.

It is more than obvious that this is not a fair and genuine consultation, because of the unbalanced way in which Moderation have managed and engaged in it, and also because of their application of grossly unfair and inappropriate pressure on players who oppose the proposal. This has forced me to leave the game and to relinquish my New Englia project, which I am very sad to do, as I had devoted a lot of time and energy into it, and had a lot of plans for. It is quite obviously impossible to remain under these circumstances.

I VERY strongly advise anybody who objects to Moderation's proposal to centralise control of culture in its hands NOT to participate in any future consultation at any significant length.


Id like to note that I have opposed Moderation vehemently at several points during this and I have not been targeted, I’ve had productive discussions with several people related to this. I think that they’ve handled opposition to it quite well, Moderators in the past I do not believe would have. I commend Moderation for taking the time to take players thoughts, opinions and ideas into account.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Elf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:29 pm

Auditorii wrote:Id like to note that I have opposed Moderation vehemently at several points during this and I have not been targeted, I’ve had productive discussions with several people related to this. I think that they’ve handled opposition to it quite well, Moderators in the past I do not believe would have. I commend Moderation for taking the time to take players thoughts, opinions and ideas into account.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby LukasV » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:50 pm

Phil Piratin wrote:Contrary to what has been suggested, I have NOT attempted to "launch a revolt" against Moderation, although the way Moderation has handled the consultation has meant that anybody who puts too much effort into making constructive and reasonable arguments against the proposal is given that smear.

Nor have I somehow been "emotional" during the course of this consultation. Anybody who bothers to intelligently read it through will see that contrary to what is being claimed, I have in fact been serious and conscientious with my contribution throughout. Nor have I engaged in any personal attacks. It is unfortunate that some people automatically equate principled opposition to centralising culture with a personal attack on the very small group of individuals who would get to hold all of that power under that proposed system.

Yesterday I received a message from a Moderator directly accusing me of being responsible for the consultation's postponement, and later a much more serious one informing me that Moderation have been considering banning me from the game as result of my contributions to this consultation.

It is more than obvious that this is not a fair and genuine consultation, because of the unbalanced way in which Moderation have managed and engaged in it, and also because of their application of grossly unfair and inappropriate pressure on players who oppose the proposal. This has forced me to leave the game and to relinquish my New Englia project, which I am very sad to do, as I had devoted a lot of time and energy into it, and had a lot of plans for. It is quite obviously impossible to remain under these circumstances.

I VERY strongly advise anybody who objects to Moderation's proposal to centralise control of culture in its hands NOT to participate in any future consultation at any significant length.

How about you take a step back, stop embellishing your argument with imagined personal attacks, and let people breathe. You've been hounding people non-stop since this all came to light that it's become impossible to get anything else productive done, essentially filibustering the game until you get your way. Let people work, let them try and put together some decent plan, and then maybe we can all find common ground. The mods have been more than patient with you with the shit that you've slung at them, and on the basis of this thread or any other have been more than fair in addressing criticism or a call for details that is actually productive to the discussion and isn't a sneaky re-hash of points already addressed that you've only dressed up in different words to get some sort of juvenile "GOTCHA" moment. Moderation has performed admirably thus far, and I applaud their efforts in trying to clarify the matter.

Lay off, and come back when you're not spreading conspiracy theories on how our mod team is apparently bullying you or personally attacking you, when they clearly are doing neither of these things.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Phil Piratin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:46 pm

The responses since my last post are a depressing but extremely predictable continuation of the childish games and smear campaigns that have unfortunately been going on for some time, and everybody who has seen enough of what has been going on (and this goes way beyond this particular thread) will see very clearly what this is all about.

But returning to the bigger point, the reality is simple. The culture rules reform proposal as it is being currently presented has a lot of problems. Moderation has handled the consultation poorly, as anyone who takes the time to intelligently read it through will easily realise. However, despite the obvious problems and biases within the consultation process, those arguing for the proposed reform, at least in the way it is currently being presented, have clearly lost the argument. Furthermore, the disingenuous and manipulative claim that there is a meaningful consensus of player support for the proposal has been clearly exposed as the sham that it is.

Now is probably the right time for this thread to be locked.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Auditorii » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:53 pm

Phil Piratin wrote:The responses since my last post are a depressing but extremely predictable continuation of the childish games and smear campaigns that have unfortunately been going on for some time, and everybody who has seen enough of what has been going on (and this goes way beyond this particular thread) will see very clearly what this is all about.

But returning to the bigger point, the reality is simple. The culture rules reform proposal as it is being currently presented has a lot of problems. Moderation has handled the consultation poorly, as anyone who takes the time to intelligently read it through will easily realise. However, despite the obvious problems and biases within the consultation process, those arguing for the proposed reform, at least in the way it is currently being presented, have clearly lost the argument. Furthermore, the disingenuous and manipulative claim that there is a meaningful consensus of player support for the proposal has been clearly exposed as the sham that it is.

Now is probably the right time for this thread to be locked.


Or it’s members of the community who are contributing who have literally zero to do with your issues with the constultation. If you want me to post my full thoughts on the consultation, I will.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby LukasV » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:24 pm

Phil Piratin wrote:The responses since my last post are a depressing but extremely predictable continuation of the childish games and smear campaigns that have unfortunately been going on for some time, and everybody who has seen enough of what has been going on (and this goes way beyond this particular thread) will see very clearly what this is all about.

But returning to the bigger point, the reality is simple. The culture rules reform proposal as it is being currently presented has a lot of problems. Moderation has handled the consultation poorly, as anyone who takes the time to intelligently read it through will easily realise. However, despite the obvious problems and biases within the consultation process, those arguing for the proposed reform, at least in the way it is currently being presented, have clearly lost the argument. Furthermore, the disingenuous and manipulative claim that there is a meaningful consensus of player support for the proposal has been clearly exposed as the sham that it is.

Now is probably the right time for this thread to be locked.

The only person playing childish games here is you. You've smeared anyone who dared disagreed with you; you've called people names; you've taken pot shots at people and attributed that their disagreements with you must be because they're too juvenile to understand; you've been nothing but condescending throughout this entire thread when it turned out that people didn't agree with your summary or opinion of what you felt ought to be done, and you've acted like a spoiled and petulant child, deflecting anything that calls you out on acting this way as being bullying or going after you personally. If you feel like you're being targeted, maybe stop shooting shit so much at people, and maybe then you won't be worth responding to. You are right though; people have seen enough of the shit-slinging that you're throwing in Moderation's face, and we're all tired of the conspiracy theories that you're putting forward that you're somehow the professional victim here.

I implore Moderation to continue working as they have done thus far, and to continue trying to take this game and community forward. Obviously the kinks from this consultation will be worked out over time, so let's take a breather and maybe focus on some other things so that we can return to this somewhat refreshed at a later date. Ideas take time to properly flesh out, and something as big as this should be treated no differently; we'll get there.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Phil Piratin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:32 pm

LukasV wrote:
Phil Piratin wrote:The responses since my last post are a depressing but extremely predictable continuation of the childish games and smear campaigns that have unfortunately been going on for some time, and everybody who has seen enough of what has been going on (and this goes way beyond this particular thread) will see very clearly what this is all about.

But returning to the bigger point, the reality is simple. The culture rules reform proposal as it is being currently presented has a lot of problems. Moderation has handled the consultation poorly, as anyone who takes the time to intelligently read it through will easily realise. However, despite the obvious problems and biases within the consultation process, those arguing for the proposed reform, at least in the way it is currently being presented, have clearly lost the argument. Furthermore, the disingenuous and manipulative claim that there is a meaningful consensus of player support for the proposal has been clearly exposed as the sham that it is.

Now is probably the right time for this thread to be locked.

The only person playing childish games here is you. You've smeared anyone who dared disagreed with you; you've called people names; you've taken pot shots at people and attributed that their disagreements with you must be because they're too juvenile to understand; you've been nothing but condescending throughout this entire thread when it turned out that people didn't agree with your summary or opinion of what you felt ought to be done, and you've acted like a spoiled and petulant child, deflecting anything that calls you out on acting this way as being bullying or going after you personally. If you feel like you're being targeted, maybe stop shooting shit so much at people, and maybe then you won't be worth responding to. You are right though; people have seen enough of the shit-slinging that you're throwing in Moderation's face, and we're all tired of the conspiracy theories that you're putting forward that you're somehow the professional victim here.

I implore Moderation to continue working as they have done thus far, and to continue trying to take this game and community forward. Obviously the kinks from this consultation will be worked out over time, so let's take a breather and maybe focus on some other things so that we can return to this somewhat refreshed at a later date. Ideas take time to properly flesh out, and something as big as this should be treated no differently; we'll get there.


This is a pack of malicious lies, as you know full well.

It is fairly obvious also that this thread now needs to be locked.
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