PARTICRACY CULTURE REFORMS CONSULTATION

Talk and plan things about the game with other players.

Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Elf » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:47 pm

Phil Piratin wrote:And now we're installing a fantasy nation next to Hutori and Telamon with trolls, elves, warlocks, fire-breathing dragons, unicorns, wizards, fairies, goblins...?
While having actual Unicorns recognised in the lore might be a bit over-the-top, the belief in trolls, elves, goblins, dragons and whatever is consistent with realism, as is belief in magic, having people thinking of themselves as warlocks/wizards like real life Wiccans.

I recognise some of the troubles in having cultures redefined, like "Southern Majatran", which was always fluctuating but IIRC kinda meant Italian-English, suddenly being Romansh. However, I also think that the proposed system is better than what we have, as it provides a mechanism of turning the lore "on" (or "off"), instead of having to declare a place "culturally open" and treat it like it doesn't exist, eventually replacing it with something else. Some great creations of this community, like Byzantine-Esperanto Zardugal, which had quite an active existence, or Jelbic, are well worth preserving.

Phil Piratin wrote:
Elf wrote:I wanna have a properly Anglo-Saxon (Old English) country in the game. That was my plan for Mordusia while I played there. I think it could easily become popular among people who like fantasy stuff. I'm ready to move somewhere to see that happen. Seriously.


Now recalling the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle and the stuff about fire-breathing dragons flying over the skies of Northumbria...

On a personal level this excites me too, although I'm not sure how much player demand/interest is out there for something like this. Vorona was once Old Anglo-Saxon, but that never really took off.
Hmmm.... since Davostan lacks a clearly-established and recognised culture, apart from acultural Satanism, maybe this would be the place to go? :D
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby EdmundS » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:51 pm

Elf wrote:I wanna have a properly Anglo-Saxon (Old English) country in the game. That was my plan for Mordusia while I played there. I think it could easily become popular among people who like fantasy stuff. I'm ready to move somewhere to see that happen. Seriously.


Phil Piratin wrote:
Elf wrote:I wanna have a properly Anglo-Saxon (Old English) country in the game. That was my plan for Mordusia while I played there. I think it could easily become popular among people who like fantasy stuff. I'm ready to move somewhere to see that happen. Seriously.


Now recalling the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle and the stuff about fire-breathing dragons flying over the skies of Northumbria...

On a personal level this excites me too, although I'm not sure how much player demand/interest is out there for something like this. Vorona was once Old Anglo-Saxon, but that never really took off.


I'd absolutely love this. I'm not sure if Mordusia would work, though.

I tried to do a party representing the Anglo-Saxon minority in Deltaria when I started out, but now it looks as if that'll be replaced by a Slovak minority. Unfortunately it seems that Vorona has been turned into the usual English-speaking liberal democracy, and now, like Deltaria, the last traces of its Anglo-Saxon past seem set to be replaced by Igbo...
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Polites » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:13 am

Alright, here's my response to the several issues that have been brought up, if I've missed anything please let me know.

1. As Fin mentioned, Davostan is the one nation where we really have no clear idea what would fit, and so we're open to a more detailed consultation with Davostan players. One thing that's been consistent there is Satanism, which is why we're considering a vaguely fantasy theme. But just to clarify, we intend the whole game to remain rooted in 21st century technology, so there will certainly be no elves, (actual) magic, warlocks, or fire-breathing dragons. As for languages, we're considering Finnish and Welsh partly because those are the languages Tolkien used to model his Elvish languages, so they'd provide a vaguely fantasy feel.

I also notice a surprising amount of support for Anglo-Saxon (Old English) as an In-Game culture and language. We wanted to remove that from Deltaria and Vorona since it generally failed to attract significant long-term player commitment. But if there is some support for this, would people in Davostan be willing to see Anglo-Saxon (and maybe even Old Norse) introduced as small minorities there? I think that would square with the fantasy-ish theme of the nation.

2. It is far too late in the game to do a full reset of all cultures, so we're maintaining a lot of potential inconsistencies and cultural mixes that would be hard for people to wrap their heads around, because they have a very long in-game history and loads of RP behind them. We've keeping French and Persian cultures right next to each other in Seleya and we're keeping Mayans and Japanese in Sekowo, for instance.

3. We're going to keep Hawu and we've already reached a settlement on Malivia. The point of this new rule isn't to completely revamp the map to suit Moderation interests, it's to make rules surrounding culture simpler and more straightforward than Cultural Protocols. So we're taking player input into account, and we'll continue to do so, without the complex and confusing requirements behind updating and passing Cultural Protocols.

4. As CCP pointed out, the Hawu are like African Americans but they are not literal African Americans. I understand and agree with that, but that holds true for every other ethnic group in this game. We're aiming for the nation descriptions we will provide (hopefully today-ish) to be as simple and straightforward as possible. So for instance we probably won't provide detailed place of origin information for all the Hawu sub-groups, just like how we will likely not mention detailed sub-cultural breakdowns for all other major ethnic groups. We feel that all that detail, including the manner in which IG groups differ from their RL counterparts, are best left for the interested players to develop and elaborate without the need for Moderation involvement. If it's something that doesn't impact character names and in-game language use, then I don't think it requires Moderation endorsement. As for the 80/15/5 makeup, we're not actually insisting on it, it's our first suggestion but we're willing to change it.

5. In what regards the consultation as a whole, while we did get significant opposition to the new rule, most of it was more along the lines of "Why you making my nation culture X when it's always been culture Y?". We've already reached some settlements and compromises in several such nations, and we'll continue to do so as the consultation continues. We've also received quite a lot of support from newer and/or less RP experienced players, many of whom pointed out that they just wanted to know how to name their damned characters and found the Cultural Protocols rules confusing. So I am fairly confident this new rule has some strong backing from precisely the kind of players who some fear would be turned off by it.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Polites » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:18 am

Moderation Responds to Malivia

Image
The Moderation team issuing its formal response to the Malivian government

Responding to the formal petition from the Malivian government to take into account the Indo-Afro Caribbean culture of the nation, the Moderation team has issued its response to Malivian requests. In an official statement, the Moderation team praised the efforts of Malivian players, particularly Roosevelt and the democratically-elected Nation Master of Malivia, Corvo Attano, in developing and expanding their nation's culture, and expressed their hope of continuing the productive relationship between the two parties. In what concerns the specific issue of Indo-Afro-Caribbean culture, the Moderation team, after some internal debates and consultation with the Malivian players, have reached the decision that it is indeed a central part of Malivia's national character, and will retain that aspect as part of the nation's official description. Responding to the concerns raised by the Malivian government that the actions of the Moderation team may lead to a deterioration of national sovereignty and the democratic decision-making process behind determining the nations' cultural makeup, the Moderation team emphasized their continued commitment to player input and long-term interests, and re-affirmed their policy of maintaining open and free communication between the Team and the entire Particracy community. The Moderation team stressed their belief that the reform they are proposing will lead to simpler and unmediated interaction between themselves and the player base that will, as they hope, make obtaining and implementing player input easier to achieve.

OOC: Ok, new rule. From now on all posts need to be in character.
(JK of course)
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby ReformedEndralon » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:45 am

I have seen the map here and note that Cobura an Amharic culture and whatever 19 & 20 are (I haven't see a key). Does this take into account the current protocols for Cobura which give Amharic speaks a 25% share of the population, Agustans a 31% share and, for example, Tokundians who have had an RP'd presence in Tokundi for 2000 years?
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Polites » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:03 am

ReformedEndralon wrote:I have seen the map here and note that Cobura an Amharic culture and whatever 19 & 20 are (I haven't see a key). Does this take into account the current protocols for Cobura which give Amharic speaks a 25% share of the population, Agustans a 31% share and, for example, Tokundians who have had an RP'd presence in Tokundi for 2000 years?


The map with the key is here.

As for the final description of Cobura, we're going with roughly half Egyptian and half Ethiopian, with some Somalis and Augustans. The Tokundians have been reduced significantly in Cobura, and now they stand at 4% according to the current Cultural Protocol. So their importance in Coburan RP has been diminishing for quite some time now, and we see no reason to bring them back in large numbers in Cobura.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby FPC » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:06 pm

As promised here are the Basic Cultural descriptions of each nation, that Polites and I have been working on. These would be binding provided the country is enrolled in the Cultural Index. We are still looking on feedback about these especially regarding the culture of Davostan. These take precedent over the cultural map, the map is an additionally extra to give a bit of context to newer players, however these are the things that we would base our work off of.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16s0 ... sp=sharing
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby jamescfm » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:38 pm

Great work, guys! Hope this answers some of those who had questions generated by the lack of clarity that the map caused (apologies about that :roll: ). My feedback would be that the Ikpis of Saridan should be larger than the French minority, who should perhaps be re-classified as Walloons to differentiate them from mainstream Canrillaise. I also think that there should be a small "French" population in Lourenne, still. With that said, this seems to me to be a fantastic starting point.
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby Elf » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:44 pm

FPC wrote:As promised here are the Basic Cultural descriptions of each nation, that Polites and I have been working on. These would be binding provided the country is enrolled in the Cultural Index. We are still looking on feedback about these especially regarding the culture of Davostan. These take precedent over the cultural map, the map is an additionally extra to give a bit of context to newer players, however these are the things that we would base our work off of.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16s0 ... sp=sharing

On the whole, I love the proposal!

Personally, I think that the Selucian population of Pontesi should be slightly higher, 15% maybe. Bazileum has been RP:ed as a Seluco-Pontesian majority province by different players for several years now, with 10% the can't be the majority anywhere.

But that's no biggie. I'm ready to depart for Davostan at an moment, if this is gonna be its theme. :D
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Re: PARTICRACY CULTURE MAP CONSULTATION

Postby EdmundS » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:12 pm

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