GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

General discussions about the Particracy web game.

Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Yolo04 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:23 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:Unfortunately, Yolo4, the links you provided were often dating back up to eight real life years ago and therefore cannot he considered relevant. As always, will look over your RP and especially any links provided, but for the moment I don’t believe we’ve seen a strong argument in favour of re-assessing the rankings.

As always, not trying to seem like a douche, but we must be fair. Definitely appreciate co-operation however, and definitely agree with General.Ms points in his statement on behalf of the GRC.

Also would like to apologise on behalf of I think the views of the whole GRC about the way the debate went earlier, we all have to remember this is just a game, and arguing helps nobody :)

The links I provided should be to posts made from as far back as 4-5 weeks ago.Are the links working for you?
Also you don’t have to apologize. You’ve done nothing wrong

But I’m just tired of arguing
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Kubrick » Sat May 05, 2018 12:37 am

When I first saw this list I must say I was disappointed, to me it feels like the people responsible for this list weren't really sure what to do and went for the 'change for the sake of change' method. In my opinion always a terrible approach, which you can see with the backlash in this thread.

Sisyphus already boldly defended Vanuku's status as a Great Power, which thankfully was reinstated, but General.M even said that he 'wasn't fully aware of all the RP Vanuku has done' and that worries me. Because the conclusion Sisyphus arrived at after watching the military rankings list was 'this is not right' and I have the exact same reaction to the economic rankings. New Endralon and Selucia are 'very strong' economies and Vanuku was downgraded? Nonsensical. Why? Because over the past few months countless RP was done to justify Vanuku still being a very strong economy.

Listed below:
- In early January 2018 Vanuku and Istalia normalized their relations and started economic cooperation, arguably boosting both economies significantly as they are two of the world's greatest powers. (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=360)
- In late January 2018 Vanukean and Istalian economies were still surging according to financial reports (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=370)
- In February and March 2018 there were two important steps in the economic development of Vanuku: a massive infrastructure investment in the rail and roadnetworks and a big investment in the nation's biggest economic asset the Grand Canal as well as several law reforms that boosted the financial market, oil and gas sector, industrial sector and even the defence industry (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=380)
- Going further down the same month Vanuku heavily invested in the Jelbanian economy with the intention of linking their economy to that of Vanuku, this of course is a boost to both nations (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=390)
- And at last there's the Royal Edicts of the past few weeks that have been totally reforming the nation and investing heavily in both the private and defence sector (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=410)

All in all I feel that any demotion for Vanuku is not justified.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby thefalloutfan101 » Sat May 05, 2018 3:15 am

I have recently viewed this thread and are content with Trigunia's rank. The only thing I'd like to try to push is their military spending. After doing an in-rp event of the government arresting 50 oligarchs and inheriting over 500 billion Rabols, there's definitely some room for a strengthened budget. I've never dipped into the budget mechanics of PT but it seems now's the time.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby General.M » Sat May 05, 2018 8:58 am

Kubrick wrote:When I first saw this list I must say I was disappointed, to me it feels like the people responsible for this list weren't really sure what to do and went for the 'change for the sake of change' method. In my opinion always a terrible approach, which you can see with the backlash in this thread.

Sisyphus already boldly defended Vanuku's status as a Great Power, which thankfully was reinstated, but General.M even said that he 'wasn't fully aware of all the RP Vanuku has done' and that worries me. Because the conclusion Sisyphus arrived at after watching the military rankings list was 'this is not right' and I have the exact same reaction to the economic rankings. New Endralon and Selucia are 'very strong' economies and Vanuku was downgraded? Nonsensical. Why? Because over the past few months countless RP was done to justify Vanuku still being a very strong economy.

Listed below:
- In early January 2018 Vanuku and Istalia normalized their relations and started economic cooperation, arguably boosting both economies significantly as they are two of the world's greatest powers. (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=360)
- In late January 2018 Vanukean and Istalian economies were still surging according to financial reports (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=370)
- In February and March 2018 there were two important steps in the economic development of Vanuku: a massive infrastructure investment in the rail and roadnetworks and a big investment in the nation's biggest economic asset the Grand Canal as well as several law reforms that boosted the financial market, oil and gas sector, industrial sector and even the defence industry (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=380)
- Going further down the same month Vanuku heavily invested in the Jelbanian economy with the intention of linking their economy to that of Vanuku, this of course is a boost to both nations (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=390)
- And at last there's the Royal Edicts of the past few weeks that have been totally reforming the nation and investing heavily in both the private and defence sector (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=410)

All in all I feel that any demotion for Vanuku is not justified.

I think I have to take responsibility for this. First, we have carefully considered each ranking, and there was no such thing as 'change for the sake of change method'. I have full trust in all the CRC's, and how they made the rankings. I have to take full responsibility for the Vanuku rankings. Although all CRC's made the rankings for their own continents, I have advised for the Vanuku rankings. And I have to apologise for that I was not fully aware of all RP. Normally I read (or at least check) all the posts from every nation but for some reason I missed some of Vanuku's posts. As for the 'backslash', I see this as normal with a consulation, and the same happened with the consulations before.

Vanuku is a great power again. But economically I am not sure. Although the RP was very good, 6 economical posts are not a lot to keep Vanuku where it is. That compared to New Endralon, where I am (before you say that I am biased, I am. That is why I left the decision to upgrade New Endralon to the other CRC's, although I did provide them with the neccesary links to my RP), which has 26 economy related posts. That combined with the RP'ed unrest in Vanuku with the orderists and the instable Republic. I have sensed in the community, mainly on discord, that there were more people who found that Vanuku should be downgraded. And this is not the first time Vanuku is on the edge of being downgraded, if I remember correctly. Since I joined this game Vanuku was constantly under fire for being too highly ranked. But I will consult with the Majatran CRC, as this is officially his territory, and see what he thinks.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby lewiselder1 » Sat May 05, 2018 10:33 am

General.M wrote:
Kubrick wrote:When I first saw this list I must say I was disappointed, to me it feels like the people responsible for this list weren't really sure what to do and went for the 'change for the sake of change' method. In my opinion always a terrible approach, which you can see with the backlash in this thread.

Sisyphus already boldly defended Vanuku's status as a Great Power, which thankfully was reinstated, but General.M even said that he 'wasn't fully aware of all the RP Vanuku has done' and that worries me. Because the conclusion Sisyphus arrived at after watching the military rankings list was 'this is not right' and I have the exact same reaction to the economic rankings. New Endralon and Selucia are 'very strong' economies and Vanuku was downgraded? Nonsensical. Why? Because over the past few months countless RP was done to justify Vanuku still being a very strong economy.

Listed below:
- In early January 2018 Vanuku and Istalia normalized their relations and started economic cooperation, arguably boosting both economies significantly as they are two of the world's greatest powers. (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=360)
- In late January 2018 Vanukean and Istalian economies were still surging according to financial reports (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=370)
- In February and March 2018 there were two important steps in the economic development of Vanuku: a massive infrastructure investment in the rail and roadnetworks and a big investment in the nation's biggest economic asset the Grand Canal as well as several law reforms that boosted the financial market, oil and gas sector, industrial sector and even the defence industry (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=380)
- Going further down the same month Vanuku heavily invested in the Jelbanian economy with the intention of linking their economy to that of Vanuku, this of course is a boost to both nations (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=390)
- And at last there's the Royal Edicts of the past few weeks that have been totally reforming the nation and investing heavily in both the private and defence sector (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=410)

All in all I feel that any demotion for Vanuku is not justified.

I think I have to take responsibility for this. First, we have carefully considered each ranking, and there was no such thing as 'change for the sake of change method'. I have full trust in all the CRC's, and how they made the rankings. I have to take full responsibility for the Vanuku rankings. Although all CRC's made the rankings for their own continents, I have advised for the Vanuku rankings. And I have to apologise for that I was not fully aware of all RP. Normally I read (or at least check) all the posts from every nation but for some reason I missed some of Vanuku's posts. As for the 'backslash', I see this as normal with a consulation, and the same happened with the consulations before.

Vanuku is a great power again. But economically I am not sure. Although the RP was very good, 6 economical posts are not a lot to keep Vanuku where it is. That compared to New Endralon, where I am (before you say that I am biased, I am. That is why I left the decision to upgrade New Endralon to the other CRC's, although I did provide them with the neccesary links to my RP), which has 26 economy related posts. That combined with the RP'ed unrest in Vanuku with the orderists and the instable Republic. I have sensed in the community, mainly on discord, that there were more people who found that Vanuku should be downgraded. And this is not the first time Vanuku is on the edge of being downgraded, if I remember correctly. Since I joined this game Vanuku was constantly under fire for being too highly ranked. But I will consult with the Majatran CRC, as this is officially his territory, and see what he thinks.


I understand your concerns Kubrick, but I don’t actuly feel there has been much backlash. We’ve had the Vanuku issue, which as M has discussed here has been resolved militarily and is being discussed privately and publicly with regards to the economic position — the point of this consultation is to work out issues like this.

Other than the Vanuku issue, which as I said is being resolved in exactly the way the consultation period is meant to resolve issues like this, I believe the rankings are generally good. I think because there has unfortunately been a lot of loud argument it feels as if there has been a great deal of backlash, when I think these are really normal conditions.

We definitely did not take a ‘change for the sake of change’ approach, each CRC and their team has carefully considered each nation’s RP and will review anything discussed here. We do appreciate these concerns though, as we appreciate other concerns about delays etc, though stress that it is mostly isolated incidents and we’re putting in place new ideas to ensure these kind of things are accounted for at the next rankings.

Just my opinion of course, but I thought it was worth putting out there.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby lewiselder1 » Sat May 05, 2018 1:31 pm

Yolo04 wrote:
lewiselder1 wrote:Unfortunately, Yolo4, the links you provided were often dating back up to eight real life years ago and therefore cannot he considered relevant. As always, will look over your RP and especially any links provided, but for the moment I don’t believe we’ve seen a strong argument in favour of re-assessing the rankings.

As always, not trying to seem like a douche, but we must be fair. Definitely appreciate co-operation however, and definitely agree with General.Ms points in his statement on behalf of the GRC.

Also would like to apologise on behalf of I think the views of the whole GRC about the way the debate went earlier, we all have to remember this is just a game, and arguing helps nobody :)

The links I provided should be to posts made from as far back as 4-5 weeks ago.Are the links working for you?
Also you don’t have to apologize. You’ve done nothing wrong

But I’m just tired of arguing
Dankuk will be a small power


Also, my apologies, it appears there's something up with my links, no idea why. It sends me to really old posts on some links? Regardless, the other CRCs will check out any links until I can figure out why it seems to be doing this. (Has anybody else had this problem?)
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Kubrick » Sat May 05, 2018 9:35 pm

lewiselder1 wrote:
General.M wrote:
Kubrick wrote:When I first saw this list I must say I was disappointed, to me it feels like the people responsible for this list weren't really sure what to do and went for the 'change for the sake of change' method. In my opinion always a terrible approach, which you can see with the backlash in this thread.

Sisyphus already boldly defended Vanuku's status as a Great Power, which thankfully was reinstated, but General.M even said that he 'wasn't fully aware of all the RP Vanuku has done' and that worries me. Because the conclusion Sisyphus arrived at after watching the military rankings list was 'this is not right' and I have the exact same reaction to the economic rankings. New Endralon and Selucia are 'very strong' economies and Vanuku was downgraded? Nonsensical. Why? Because over the past few months countless RP was done to justify Vanuku still being a very strong economy.

Listed below:
- In early January 2018 Vanuku and Istalia normalized their relations and started economic cooperation, arguably boosting both economies significantly as they are two of the world's greatest powers. (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=360)
- In late January 2018 Vanukean and Istalian economies were still surging according to financial reports (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=370)
- In February and March 2018 there were two important steps in the economic development of Vanuku: a massive infrastructure investment in the rail and roadnetworks and a big investment in the nation's biggest economic asset the Grand Canal as well as several law reforms that boosted the financial market, oil and gas sector, industrial sector and even the defence industry (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=380)
- Going further down the same month Vanuku heavily invested in the Jelbanian economy with the intention of linking their economy to that of Vanuku, this of course is a boost to both nations (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=390)
- And at last there's the Royal Edicts of the past few weeks that have been totally reforming the nation and investing heavily in both the private and defence sector (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1605&start=410)

All in all I feel that any demotion for Vanuku is not justified.

I think I have to take responsibility for this. First, we have carefully considered each ranking, and there was no such thing as 'change for the sake of change method'. I have full trust in all the CRC's, and how they made the rankings. I have to take full responsibility for the Vanuku rankings. Although all CRC's made the rankings for their own continents, I have advised for the Vanuku rankings. And I have to apologise for that I was not fully aware of all RP. Normally I read (or at least check) all the posts from every nation but for some reason I missed some of Vanuku's posts. As for the 'backslash', I see this as normal with a consulation, and the same happened with the consulations before.

Vanuku is a great power again. But economically I am not sure. Although the RP was very good, 6 economical posts are not a lot to keep Vanuku where it is. That compared to New Endralon, where I am (before you say that I am biased, I am. That is why I left the decision to upgrade New Endralon to the other CRC's, although I did provide them with the neccesary links to my RP), which has 26 economy related posts. That combined with the RP'ed unrest in Vanuku with the orderists and the instable Republic. I have sensed in the community, mainly on discord, that there were more people who found that Vanuku should be downgraded. And this is not the first time Vanuku is on the edge of being downgraded, if I remember correctly. Since I joined this game Vanuku was constantly under fire for being too highly ranked. But I will consult with the Majatran CRC, as this is officially his territory, and see what he thinks.


I understand your concerns Kubrick, but I don’t actuly feel there has been much backlash. We’ve had the Vanuku issue, which as M has discussed here has been resolved militarily and is being discussed privately and publicly with regards to the economic position — the point of this consultation is to work out issues like this.

Other than the Vanuku issue, which as I said is being resolved in exactly the way the consultation period is meant to resolve issues like this, I believe the rankings are generally good. I think because there has unfortunately been a lot of loud argument it feels as if there has been a great deal of backlash, when I think these are really normal conditions.

We definitely did not take a ‘change for the sake of change’ approach, each CRC and their team has carefully considered each nation’s RP and will review anything discussed here. We do appreciate these concerns though, as we appreciate other concerns about delays etc, though stress that it is mostly isolated incidents and we’re putting in place new ideas to ensure these kind of things are accounted for at the next rankings.

Just my opinion of course, but I thought it was worth putting out there.


I am certainly not the only one to come to this conclusion. Several other people have told me they consider the current rankings insufficient to the RP provided. I continue lodging my discontent to the current ranking and I am willing to take it to Moderation because the argument that General.M gives is absolutely ridiculous: "New Endralon made 26 posts about economy, Vanuku 6". What? Are we ranking RP on quantity now? I feel that Particracy is dropping their standards and simply giving into whoever is in the teams responsible for these rankings. General.M has been rewarded for his service clearly by being given a 'very strong economy' for his usual nation while serving on whatever the hell the RP Team is called now. The fact he was really quick to respond to my objection to Vanuku's economic ranking once more confirms the bias from my side.

All in all I feel like Vanuku has been unfairly judged and that RP is now being qualified by quantity instead of quality. I will be contacting moderation as I in my opinion this "team" has been acting completely incapable of being consistent. There is a clear hate in the Discord against Vanuku, but why would you follow that mob mentality? You are supposed to judge RP, not popular opinion. Just because people shout "Vanuku should be demoted so I can be strong" doesn't mean you should. It's ridiculous.

I hope Moderation will intervene, I will definitely message them.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby General.M » Sat May 05, 2018 11:30 pm

I will respond to all your complaints/concerns.
Kubrick wrote:I am certainly not the only one to come to this conclusion. Several other people have told me they consider the current rankings insufficient to the RP provided.

That is unfortunate. I had hoped they would voice their concerns here so that we can respond. I am willing to respond to every argument and rereview all rankings.

I continue lodging my discontent to the current ranking and I am willing to take it to Moderation because the argument that General.M gives is absolutely ridiculous: "New Endralon made 26 posts about economy, Vanuku 6". What? Are we ranking RP on quantity now?

No, ofcourse not, but it is a factor we consider. If we only counted quality of RP, we would just compare the best post of every nation. Don't you agree that 6 posts is bit little for a very strong economy?

I feel that Particracy is dropping their standards and simply giving into whoever is in the teams responsible for these rankings. General.M has been rewarded for his service clearly by being given a 'very strong economy' for his usual nation while serving on whatever the hell the RP Team is called now.

Ouch, that hurt. We are not corrupt, and if you fear that we are please bring it to moderation. If you don't think New Endralon deserves to be a very strong economy just say it. It doesn't matter a lot to me wether New Endralon is a strong or a very strong economy, I can still RP roughly the same. If you don't think New Endralon deserves it, I will change it back, your choice.

The fact he was really quick to respond to my objection to Vanuku's economic ranking once more confirms the bias from my side.

I don't understand what you mean by this. But the reason I responded so quickly is that I am coming home from holiday today, and when you are in a car for 14 hour, you can work on this. You can see that I made 2 RP posts today just because I hade too much time to spend.

All in all I feel like Vanuku has been unfairly judged and that RP is now being qualified by quantity instead of quality.

I have no hate towards Vanuku, in fact, it was the nation I was before I went to New Endralon.

I will be contacting moderation as I in my opinion this "team" has been acting completely incapable of being consistent.

We are reviewing our methods. We believe that when all CRC's make a part of the rankings, consistency is hard to maintain. If you spot some inconsistencies, please show us a comparison, and we will change it if we have to.

There is a clear hate in the Discord against Vanuku, but why would you follow that mob mentality? You are supposed to judge RP, not popular opinion. Just because people shout "Vanuku should be demoted so I can be strong" doesn't mean you should. It's ridiculous.

It is my believe that the GRC should also look to what the community thinks. Otherwise we will get the complaint that the GRC is just ther for the old guard, and doesn't care for what the community thinks, and that happened before. And ofcourse we also judge the RP. That's our main task afterall.

I hope Moderation will intervene, I will definitely message them.

I respect your decision to message moderation to investigate the issue. I await the conclusion.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby cm9777 » Sun May 06, 2018 3:42 am

Please be aware that while everyone is free to voice criticisms of the rankings, the members of the RP Commitee are giving up their free time for the good of the community thanks. Please be considerate
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Rankings (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby jamescfm » Sun May 06, 2018 10:31 am

Apologies again for intervening without concrete evidence, as such, I just want to offer some advice. From the outside it seems like these rankings have lost some of their relevance. I’m not really a long term player, I’ve been here just over eighteen months but when I see New Endralon at the top of the ranking, it’s like seeing a list of the top albums of all time and the number one is Nickelback. It undermines the rest of the information being presented. I don’t say that because I particularly dislike New Endralon but whenever I’ve played there it’s always been a smaller economy, strategically working with other countries and playing them off each other. I think it seems cheap for a single player to be able to churn out forum posts and unilaterally declare that its economy has become among the strongest in Terra. Just my thoughts though, I don’t really have a horse in this race.
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