Consultation on Different Population Caps

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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby CiviixXXX » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:35 pm

My proposition is making population density the same is real life equivalent of this country. This would give: (sorted by area, only top 5) :
Valruzia, 235'521'000
Tukarali, 42'666'750
Dolgava, 65068000
Alduria, 201687210
Baltusia, 25807320 (no RLE equivalent, so I took world as RLE equivalent)
and so more.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby dharr001 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:47 pm

We believe Dankuk and Kazulia should have similar population sizes. It is rediculous to suggest that a small island like Klavia should have a larger population than Dankuk. Dankuk has a lot of inhabitants and we are finding this a bit bias against Dankuk. The low rankings and so on is due to the Republican Party falling out with moderation and the war did not kill many people

We ask for this to be changed to be a bit fairer
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby lewiselder1 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:55 pm

Thought I'd let everyone know me and the Dovani GRC team will be looking through Dankuk's, Kazulia's, and Indrala's numbers asap: many of Dovani's numbers were made by me when I had just become Acting CRC with no deputy at the time and I was careful to make any big alterations to the original formula's results, so expect some big changes there. Some huge oversights on my part, but will try and correct them to the best of my ability. Apologies, and please let me know if you disagree with any and I'll take a sincere look into them asap.

CiviixXXX wrote:My proposition is making population density the same is real life equivalent of this country. This would give: (sorted by area, only top 5) :
Valruzia, 235'521'000
Tukarali, 42'666'750
Dolgava, 65068000
Alduria, 201687210
Baltusia, 25807320 (no RLE equivalent, so I took world as RLE equivalent)
and so more.


Thoroughly disagree, this would ignore the history of the nations in-game and assume that culture = the actual nation. Thanks for the suggestion though!

dharr001 wrote:We believe Dankuk and Kazulia should have similar population sizes. It is rediculous to suggest that a small island like Klavia should have a larger population than Dankuk. Dankuk has a lot of inhabitants and we are finding this a bit bias against Dankuk. The low rankings and so on is due to the Republican Party falling out with moderation and the war did not kill many people

We ask for this to be changed to be a bit fairer


The rankings changes were not made because of a perceived falling out, they were as they were because of how we judged the rankings. Regardless, would appreciate if we keep this on-topic.

As I said, we will be looking into Dankuk's numbers and should have new numbers for the three nations I have mentioned up within a day or so max.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby cm9777 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:47 am

Kubrick wrote:I think Vanuku needs 12 more inhabitants.

Jokes aside, loving this. Only genuine comment would be, doesn't this make Indrala very OP in terms in IC balance? They have more than double the population of number four on that list! Spreadsheet was interesting to look at, though missing the steppes with Vanuku. Nonetheless very satisfactory to look at.


I wouldn't necessarily say that would be the case. IRL nations such as India and China have massive population numbers but many nations with much smaller populations are able to remain competitive both militarily and economically due to their development.


Reddy wrote:I am in favour of this reform. Just a few questions.

- how would the radical transformation of a country's CPs affect its cap? Would a country or its players be able to apply for a revision of its cap in such a case?
- will rankings remain if this adopted? I feel this would make them quite obsolete particularly the military ones.
- won't this lead to the slaughter one of PT's few remaining holy cows - never allowing any country to become a hyperpower? indrala and/or Malivia among others, could legitimately claim to be hyperpowers if they gain the highest ranking. Perhaps the differences should be less wide, unrealistic it may be?


If the need for change arises there will be a process of sorts to support it. I don't agree that rankings would be made obsolete as per above where I mentioned in real life that nations with higher development and lower populations can remain globally competitive. In saying this however, we may consider bringing the numbers closer together if there is a need for it.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby lewiselder1 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:46 pm

While this still requires moderator approval and is yet to be reviewed by the community as a whole, of course, however the Dovani Team in the GRC has been reviewing the numbers for Kazulia, Indrala, and Dankuk. We’re got the new numbers proposals for these nations, as well as reviewed numbers for Talmoria, which we also worried were too high.

Here are our new proposals, which will be added into our former figures at the end of the consultation providing they are accepted by moderation and not reviewed further.

KAZULIA: 115,786,480 (higher)

INDRALA: 218,314,129 (lower)

DANKUK: 26,557,632 (higher)

TALMORIA: 86,228,005 (lower)


Hopefully these seem more suitable.

If there's any further disagreements with these numbers we'll look into them with a longer review with more people involved in the process.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby Reddy » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:55 pm

Fair enough. Thank you for your answers. CM and Lewis. Where rankings are concerned, I think the main problem imo was going to be the military rather than economic but perhaps I was reading too much into it.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby EdmundS » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:09 pm

EdmundS wrote:Most nations should probably have smaller populations, especially those that have been RPed as highly developed.


Expanding on this:

There are only three developed countries with a population larger than 100 million IRL. Going off the suggested list all economically very strong and several strong nations would have populations above 100 million. Same goes for all great powers other than Kazulia (edit: Kazulia now has a population above 100 million, so all great powers) and all regional powers other than Deltaria and Hutori, while IRL great powers Britain, France, and Italy have populations around the 60-80 million mark. IRL regional powers South Africa, Argentina, South Korea, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Australia, and Turkey all also have populations under 100 million. There's no need for Terra to have nearly every major power have a population above 100 million, and the suggested changes would in my opinion hurt realism more than the 99 million cap.
Last edited by EdmundS on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby Polites » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:39 am

lewiselder1 wrote:While this still requires moderator approval and is yet to be reviewed by the community as a whole, of course, however the Dovani Team in the GRC has been reviewing the numbers for Kazulia, Indrala, and Dankuk. We’re got the new numbers proposals for these nations, as well as reviewed numbers for Talmoria, which we also worried were too high.

Here are our new proposals, which will be added into our former figures at the end of the consultation providing they are accepted by moderation and not reviewed further.

KAZULIA: 115,786,480 (higher)

INDRALA: 218,314,129 (lower)

DANKUK: 26,557,632 (higher)

TALMORIA: 86,228,005 (lower)


Hopefully these seem more suitable.

If there's any further disagreements with these numbers we'll look into them with a longer review with more people involved in the process.


Alright added these numbers to the file. So the current population cap proposal is as follows:

Indrala: 218,314,129
Malivia: 203,397,251
Hulstria: 174,964,697
Istalia: 146,694,525
Dorvik: 133,203,018
Aldegar: 130,495,554
Dundorf: 124,321,515
Valruzia: 124,201,950
Trigunia: 121,536,015
Luthori: 121,292,100
New Endralon: 119,736,352
Hawu Mumenhes: 116,361,591
Kazulia: 115,786,480
Lourenne: 109,156,419
Baltusia: 102,195,322
Rutania: 100,712,651
Vanuku: 100,459,068
Tukarali: 99,086,778
Mordusia: 94,744,518
Selucia: 93,580,142
Sekowo: 88,501,606
Lodamun: 86,761,485
Talmoria: 86,228,005
Beluzia: 85,343,517
Zardugal: 81,140,960
Deltaria: 79,371,977
Kalistan: 74,254,423
Narikaton: 71,494,345
Endralon: 69,452,571
Hutori: 65,815,242
Pontesi: 59,936,717
Kanjor: 56,997,456
Likatonia: 54,919,695
Hobrazia: 52,213,117
Jakania: 50,993,654
Barmenistan: 50,976,332
Cildania: 48,025,825
Kundrati: 46,186,284
Gaduridos: 43,601,839
Kalopia: 43,583,317
Beiteynu: 41,289,613
Egelion: 40,890,141
Cobura: 40,217,509
Saridan: 39,200,195
Solentia: 38,447,848
Badara: 36,176,257
Dolgava: 35,262,248
Alduria: 28,345,365
Rildanor: 26,997,456
Dankuk: 26,557,632
Aloria: 23,784,559
Kafuristan: 23,257,903
Telamon: 21,351,904
Jelbania: 18,409,031
Klavia Okeano: 17,731,494
Kirlawa: 15,745,551
Vorona: 13,910,152
Davostan: 13,207,205

EdmundS wrote:
EdmundS wrote:Most nations should probably have smaller populations, especially those that have been RPed as highly developed.


Expanding on this:

There are only three developed countries with a population larger than 100 million IRL. Going off the suggested list all economically very strong and several strong nations would have populations above 100 million. Same goes for all great powers other than Kazulia and all regional powers other than Deltaria and Hutori, while IRL great powers Britain, France, and Italy have populations around the 60-80 million mark. IRL regional powers South Africa, Argentina, South Korea, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Australia, and Turkey all also have populations under 100 million. There's no need for Terra to have nearly every major power have a population above 100 million, and the suggested changes would in my opinion hurt realism more than the 99 million cap.


That's a legitimate point. I'd say the population caps should have only an indirect relationship with the rankings. I wouldn't mind reducing the population for the strongest economies slightly. What does everyone else think?
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby CCP » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:45 am

I wouldn't be against that if we restored the large populations of Indrala and Talmoria. I don't think there was any justification for dropping them so far other than 'they seemed high.' Right now, the population changes are very gradual which I don't think is realistic at all. And Indrala is China -- it should have an enormous population. So too Malivia. Also Talmoria is all of West Africa -- Nigeria + Mali + the rest, it should be very large. Many of the other countries should be dropped though. Right now, we have half the world larger than 100 million. Those changes to Indrala and Talmoria and the unneccessary increase in Kazulia really unbalanced the numbers which had a nice mix of RP justification and climate determinism before.
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Re: Consultation on Different Population Caps

Postby cm9777 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:57 am

Personally, I concur with CCP on this actually and prefer the original proposal.
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