GRC Economic and Military Rankings

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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby jamescfm » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:47 pm

Reddy wrote:I would also like to say that I am very impressed by how the GRC has proven itself to be responsive in this process so far. It is good to see that you are absorbing criticism and suggestions well.

The point Reddy makes here is a very accurate one. The committee could easily have rebuffed any suggestion that their rankings were inaccurate and held fast on them but the willingness to adapt them to the general consensus opinion not only reflects well on the team but it improves the legitimacy of the rankings in terms of how they reflect player opinion. Can I ask, though, how long the committee expects this comment period to continue for? Apologies if this is stated somewhere and I've missed it.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Luis1p » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:48 pm

jamescfm wrote:
Reddy wrote:I would also like to say that I am very impressed by how the GRC has proven itself to be responsive in this process so far. It is good to see that you are absorbing criticism and suggestions well.

The point Reddy makes here is a very accurate one. The committee could easily have rebuffed any suggestion that their rankings were inaccurate and held fast on them but the willingness to adapt them to the general consensus opinion not only reflects well on the team but it improves the legitimacy of the rankings in terms of how they reflect player opinion. Can I ask, though, how long the committee expects this comment period to continue for? Apologies if this is stated somewhere and I've missed it.


Consultations on Rankings, according to the GRC's opinions, arw to last 2 weeks since their release. Rankings were released on November 1st, therefore, consultation will be closed on Thursday, November 15th and will be in effect on the 15th. So, it's been about 2 weeks that they have/will be open.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Aquinas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:52 pm

I will try at least one more time before I give up.

Some questions:

1. Will the permanent members of the Security Council be changed as a consequence of this proposed rankings update? If so, please give the details.

2. Will the Security Council votes be reset to zero every time the permanent members are changed? (This is in response to the situation where a little while ago, the current permanent members were removed from the voting options, thus effectively reducing their votes to zero.)

3. One of the GRC members who participated in formulating the rankings is opposed to the Global RP Accord and chooses to opt-out of it in the nation where he plays. Does the GRC agree that, going forward, this is a situation which should not be repeated?

4. This same GRC member is promoting a "Political Protocol" claiming his nation's "World Class Economy" as a "protected parameter". As we know, Moderation has already announced it is seriously considering introducing binding "Political Protocols" to the game. Can GRC/Moderation offer us any assurances that over the ensuing months, "Political Protocols" will not conflict with or over-ride the Global RP Accord/economic & military rankings?

5. Can we have some clarity about how the GRC is being led/organised, and in particular, what Luis's role is/was as "GRC Head" (going by Luis's own forum signature) or "GRC Chair (Rotating Position)" (going by the Global RP Committee Register)? As I previously pointed out, those two descriptions convey different impressions, the former suggesting someone who is formally the leader, the latter perhaps suggesting someone who is just a spokesperson (and a temporary one at that).

6. Why has Istalia's military ranking been downgraded?

7. Why have New Alduria's military and economic rankings been upgraded?
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Luis1p » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:19 pm

Aquinas wrote:I will try at least one more time before I give up.

Some questions:

1. Will the permanent members of the Security Council be changed as a consequence of this proposed rankings update? If so, please give the details.

2. Will the Security Council votes be reset to zero every time the permanent members are changed? (This is in response to the situation where a little while ago, the current permanent members were removed from the voting options, thus effectively reducing their votes to zero.)

3. One of the GRC members who participated in formulating the rankings is opposed to the Global RP Accord and chooses to opt-out of it in the nation where he plays. Does the GRC agree that, going forward, this is a situation which should not be repeated?

4. This same GRC member is promoting a "Political Protocol" claiming his nation's "World Class Economy" as a "protected parameter". As we know, Moderation has already announced it is seriously considering introducing binding "Political Protocols" to the game. Can GRC/Moderation offer us any assurances that over the ensuing months, "Political Protocols" will not conflict with or over-ride the Global RP Accord/economic & military rankings?

5. Can we have some clarity about how the GRC is being led/organised, and in particular, what Luis's role is/was as "GRC Head" (going by Luis's own forum signature) or "GRC Chair (Rotating Position)" (going by the Global RP Committee Register)? As I previously pointed out, those two descriptions convey different impressions, the former suggesting someone who is formally the leader, the latter perhaps suggesting someone who is just a spokesperson (and a temporary one at that).

6. Why has Istalia's military ranking been downgraded?

7. Why have New Alduria's military and economic rankings been upgraded?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Yes, Permanent members will change essentially causing a new election.

2. Kinda tied in to No.1, I'd have to discuss this with the rest of moderation before I can answer.

3. I don't really see anything wrong with this. The player did not portray his thoughts in regards to the RP Accord while formulating the rankings the player was assigned to complete. Opting out of the RP Accord did not have an overall impact on how this player ranked nations. However, influencing rankings based on personal thoughts of the Accord will not be allowed in the rankings process.

4. Political Protocols is one of the few things that the GRC and Moderation are currently discussing. To be honest, I don't think that Political Protocols will affect the ranking process, however we are still in the process of discussing this to make sure the protocols are successfully tied into the game with ease.

5. The GRC is organized by Continent and has members for each continent. The Global Roleplay Committee Register says "GRC Chair", my signature says "GRC Head". That was a mistake by me, it should say chair, but it almost is essentially the same thing. Directly quoting from GRC discussion for transparency, the GRC Chair:
The position of Chairperson comes with the following responsibilities and powers (not an extensive list!);

1. To create new structural protocols for the GRC, organise responsibilities (such as in the rankings) and set (soft) deadlines for certain work if anything is taking too long. Can also call for final votes and generally do anything necessary to ensure the smooth running of the GRC.

2. Encourage active participation and if necessary recommend moderation review a player's position in the GRC.

3. Will often act as the main spokesperson for the group.


6. An explanation on Istalia's down ranking can be found in previous pages of the consultation thread.

7. Fairly due to RP, both economically and militarily, by Vesica. Compared to other TW nations, New Alduria stood out stronger in terms of military and economics. Vesica can give you more details if you are not so convinced.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby jamescfm » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:09 pm

Luis1p wrote:3. I don't really see anything wrong with this. The player did not portray his thoughts in regards to the RP Accord while formulating the rankings the player was assigned to complete. Opting out of the RP Accord did not have an overall impact on how this player ranked nations. However, influencing rankings based on personal thoughts of the Accord will not be allowed in the rankings process.

Honestly, this is a difficult one for me to comprehend. First, though, let's be clear that we are referring to CCP and I encourage him to contribute to this discussion so that it doesn't seem like we're doing it without giving him a chance to defend himself. I don't really understand how anybody can contribute to something in a meaningful way when they fundamentally don't believe in its existence, purpose and methodology. Regardless of whether you agree, Luis, you must admit these seems pretty unfair and hypocritical from the point of view of other players.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Luis1p » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:10 pm

jamescfm wrote:
Luis1p wrote:3. I don't really see anything wrong with this. The player did not portray his thoughts in regards to the RP Accord while formulating the rankings the player was assigned to complete. Opting out of the RP Accord did not have an overall impact on how this player ranked nations. However, influencing rankings based on personal thoughts of the Accord will not be allowed in the rankings process.

Honestly, this is a difficult one for me to comprehend. First, though, let's be clear that we are referring to CCP and I encourage him to contribute to this discussion so that it doesn't seem like we're doing it without giving him a chance to defend himself. I don't really understand how anybody can contribute to something in a meaningful way when they fundamentally don't believe in its existence, purpose and methodology. Regardless of whether you agree, Luis, you must admit these seems pretty unfair and hypocritical from the point of view of other players.


Alright. I see understand your points. I didn't quite see it from other players' perspectives. I'll let CCP give his input on it.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Auditorii » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:27 pm

If a player abandons the RP Accord; which is insane to me that it's even optional at this point; their rankings should suffer.
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Auditorii » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:43 pm

Aquinas wrote:I will try at least one more time before I give up.

Some questions:

1. Will the permanent members of the Security Council be changed as a consequence of this proposed rankings update? If so, please give the details.

2. Will the Security Council votes be reset to zero every time the permanent members are changed? (This is in response to the situation where a little while ago, the current permanent members were removed from the voting options, thus effectively reducing their votes to zero.)

3. One of the GRC members who participated in formulating the rankings is opposed to the Global RP Accord and chooses to opt-out of it in the nation where he plays. Does the GRC agree that, going forward, this is a situation which should not be repeated?

4. This same GRC member is promoting a "Political Protocol" claiming his nation's "World Class Economy" as a "protected parameter". As we know, Moderation has already announced it is seriously considering introducing binding "Political Protocols" to the game. Can GRC/Moderation offer us any assurances that over the ensuing months, "Political Protocols" will not conflict with or over-ride the Global RP Accord/economic & military rankings?

5. Can we have some clarity about how the GRC is being led/organised, and in particular, what Luis's role is/was as "GRC Head" (going by Luis's own forum signature) or "GRC Chair (Rotating Position)" (going by the Global RP Committee Register)? As I previously pointed out, those two descriptions convey different impressions, the former suggesting someone who is formally the leader, the latter perhaps suggesting someone who is just a spokesperson (and a temporary one at that).

6. Why has Istalia's military ranking been downgraded?

7. Why have New Alduria's military and economic rankings been upgraded?


I've solved your problems.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8131 (Resolution 69 (Administrative) - Time for SC Resolutions)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8132 (Resolution 70 (Administrative) - Change in Circumstance)

You're welcome. I take cash or credit for my services.

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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Aquinas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:52 pm

Those answers were generally much better than what came before, Luis, so thank you for that. Still some points remaining though, which I would like to follow-up on.

Luis1p wrote:3. I don't really see anything wrong with this. The player did not portray his thoughts in regards to the RP Accord while formulating the rankings the player was assigned to complete. Opting out of the RP Accord did not have an overall impact on how this player ranked nations. However, influencing rankings based on personal thoughts of the Accord will not be allowed in the rankings process.


My concern is that it will affect the credibility of the rankings/RP Accord if a key GRC member involved with drawing up the rankings is personally opposed to the RP Accord and is choosing to opt-out of it. There is also the obvious risk that a player who wants to opt-out of the RP Accord but is unable to do so (due to the views of the other players in the nation) may resent it that they are obliged to respect the RP Accord, whilst the aforesaid GRC member is not.

Luis1p wrote:6. An explanation on Istalia's down ranking can be found in previous pages of the consultation thread.


There has been sufficient explanation of the economic downgrading, but not really of the military downgrading.

Luis1p wrote:7. Fairly due to RP, both economically and militarily, by Vesica. Compared to other TW nations, New Alduria stood out stronger in terms of military and economics. Vesica can give you more details if you are not so convinced.


Vesica offered to provide an explanation last week, but did not respond to my request to actually do so.

Respectfully, I'm a little alarmed that, as the Third World Co-Ordinator and GRC Chair, you are not able to explain New Alduria's upranking, and when pressed to do so, you are asking Vesica to provide the explanation instead. Vesica is the player who actually controls New Alduria, which obviously means he may be perceived to have a potential conflict of interest when it comes to assessing New Alduria's rankings. This raises the question: did anybody other than Vesica assess New Alduria's positions in the rankings?
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Re: GRC Economic and Military Period (COMMENT PERIOD)

Postby Aquinas » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:43 am

Auditorii wrote:
Aquinas wrote:I will try at least one more time before I give up.

Some questions:

1. Will the permanent members of the Security Council be changed as a consequence of this proposed rankings update? If so, please give the details.

2. Will the Security Council votes be reset to zero every time the permanent members are changed? (This is in response to the situation where a little while ago, the current permanent members were removed from the voting options, thus effectively reducing their votes to zero.)

3. One of the GRC members who participated in formulating the rankings is opposed to the Global RP Accord and chooses to opt-out of it in the nation where he plays. Does the GRC agree that, going forward, this is a situation which should not be repeated?

4. This same GRC member is promoting a "Political Protocol" claiming his nation's "World Class Economy" as a "protected parameter". As we know, Moderation has already announced it is seriously considering introducing binding "Political Protocols" to the game. Can GRC/Moderation offer us any assurances that over the ensuing months, "Political Protocols" will not conflict with or over-ride the Global RP Accord/economic & military rankings?

5. Can we have some clarity about how the GRC is being led/organised, and in particular, what Luis's role is/was as "GRC Head" (going by Luis's own forum signature) or "GRC Chair (Rotating Position)" (going by the Global RP Committee Register)? As I previously pointed out, those two descriptions convey different impressions, the former suggesting someone who is formally the leader, the latter perhaps suggesting someone who is just a spokesperson (and a temporary one at that).

6. Why has Istalia's military ranking been downgraded?

7. Why have New Alduria's military and economic rankings been upgraded?


I've solved your problems.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8131 (Resolution 69 (Administrative) - Time for SC Resolutions)
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8132 (Resolution 70 (Administrative) - Change in Circumstance)

You're welcome. I take cash or credit for my services.

BOOM. Mic drop.


I have no idea what the relevance of this is, but perhaps I'm missing something, so maybe you could explain...
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