Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby Augustus Germanus » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:40 pm

This is quite annoying actually, with the occupation of Davostan coming to an end I intended to rebuild Davostan and have them climb up to their former position as an average power economically and militarily, and to be honest I planned quite much for the coming 100 in-game years interesting roleplay that could affect Davostan in the ranking systems, which was to be the whole point, to change Davostan's position in the ranking system. But removing them because of... what exactly? Because some players plagiarized? Because the Moderation's influence over them is too much? Let me put an easy example here: Let's say that Particracy is a school, the players are the students, the moderation team is either the school board or the teachers it doesn't really matter, and the ranking system is the grade system. Now, some students work hard to achieve better grades, others don't try as hard but they aren't lazying around, and some take their time to cheat to get better grades. When a cheater is caught by the teacher and/or the school board, what happens? The student is punished and the student's grades comes into question and is taken care of. But what the teacher and/or school board and/or the students do not do is too actively try to remove the grade system. Why? Well the cheater has been caught, he/she has been dealt with, the teachers and school board is more watchful for more cheaters, and the students continue working hard for better grades knowing that some of the unfair competition has been removed. But there is one advantage the players on Particracy has compared to their student/teacher/school board counterpart, and that is... that every player here can easily check if another player is cheating, or as we call it, plagiarizing.

I don't know how removing the whole ranking system will stop plagiarizers, it would get the opposite effect actually, since there is nothing to cheat for (better ranking), they can start cheating simply to create better posts and roleplay than others. Keeping the ranking system will give MORE creativity, by removing the ability to plagiarize, the players will have to figure out themselves how to create better posts and better roleplays to achieve the rank they wish to achieve.

One last thing, it is wrong to say that the community has lost faith in the rankings. A better wording would be "a part of the community has lost faith in the rankings", because I have certainly not lost faith in them and I hoped to be able to create interesting RP through them, what should I do instead of trying to reach to goal of an average power, strong power or regional power? And its no point if I am one of the only ones who recognizes that I have reached the status of average power while others ignore or outright reject the status. I will never be able to claim myself a high status, since that would make myself as Rob put it "self-pompous" which when I think about I have never done. It is better if I and other players earn the status than claim it for ourselves.

Some of what I wrote might come of as selfish, and it's not my intention. So I hope you all can understand my point. Thank you.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby Kubrick » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:25 pm

The discontent about the rankings and the plagiarizing are two seperate issues.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby Augustus Germanus » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:30 pm

Well it doesn't seem like that's the case when several players merge the two in the posts that have been posted before me... anyways this is my way of trying to put an end to the discussion of using the plagiarizing issue as an excuse of removing the rankings, which several players I have talked to in the recent days seem to do.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby robmark0000 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:46 pm

Kubrick wrote:The discontent about the rankings and the plagiarizing are two seperate issues.


Your letter mention these two as similar issues. This is not our bad.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby Kubrick » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:16 pm

robmark0000 wrote:
Kubrick wrote:The discontent about the rankings and the plagiarizing are two seperate issues.


Your letter mention these two as similar issues. This is not our bad.

Liu's letter. I just support his ideas. But to state that without rankings you can't be creative has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read here so far.

Nothing is stopping your creativity, rankings might even limit it instead of promoting it. Go out there and RP, stop making it all about rankings AND write your own RP.

That's the points we are making. Don't cheat, play nice.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby robmark0000 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:24 pm

Kubrick wrote:
robmark0000 wrote:
Kubrick wrote:The discontent about the rankings and the plagiarizing are two seperate issues.


Your letter mention these two as similar issues. This is not our bad.

Liu's letter. I just support his ideas. But to state that without rankings you can't be creative has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read here so far.

Nothing is stopping your creativity, rankings might even limit it instead of promoting it. Go out there and RP, stop making it all about rankings AND write your own RP.

That's the points we are making. Don't cheat, play nice.


But to state that with rankings you can't be creative has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read here so far. (btw lol I never stated that without rankings you can't be creative)

I never cheated, I never will, I just want to be an enforced base of this game, like it is currently. The dynamic rankings not created randomly.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby jamescfm » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:04 pm

Like Auditorii, I am just going to speak here as a player and based on my own personal experience of the rankings over the few years that I have played the game. The two passages that I have quoted below, in my view, exemplify the problem with the rankings as they currently operate. I don't want to "isolate" robmark and Augustus. In my view, they are both good role-players who have developed some truly interesting and unique story arcs over the past few months but the views they have expressed are representative of a particular understanding of the rankings system.

Augustus Germanus wrote:Let me put an easy example here: Let's say that Particracy is a school, the players are the students, the moderation team is either the school board or the teachers it doesn't really matter, and the ranking system is the grade system. Now, some students work hard to achieve better grades, others don't try as hard but they aren't lazying around, and some take their time to cheat to get better grades.

robmark0000 wrote: I think this plan, this initiative is quiet dangerous to the enjoyment of Particracy Classic. Not just because the possible anarchy and unrealistic RP what would be its consequences, but it would steal an important collective goal (to achieve better rankings), what is truly can be resulting that a new player won't just writing electoral news after elections in the Forum.

From my perspective, the highlighted sections show that some players view the game as a competition in which the rankings are the leaderboard and "great power" status is the prize. As long as the rankings system exists players (especially new players who may be unfamiliar with forum role-play like this) are always going to have a tendency to think in this way.

In my view this attitude stifles interesting role-play and promotes a focus on military and economic posts. For some players these posts are the thing that they find most engaging about the game and the reason that they enjoy playing it. I think that the advantage of making the rankings optional is that these players are still free to engage in this role-play as much as they like and to interact with other players who enjoy it too. At the same time, players like me who prefer other types of role-play don't have to worry about meeting a sort of unspoken quota each month to retain our position in the rankings.

Ultimately both sets of players win because they both get to role-play exactly what they wish in collaboration with other like-minded players.
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Re: Feedback: PT Classic Dynamic Rankings (Updated: 07/25/2020)

Postby robmark0000 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:10 pm

jamescfm wrote:In my view this attitude stifles interesting role-play and promotes a focus on military and economic posts. For some players these posts are the thing that they find most engaging about the game and the reason that they enjoy playing it. I think that the advantage of making the rankings optional is that these players are still free to engage in this role-play as much as they like and to interact with other players who enjoy it too. At the same time, players like me who prefer other types of role-play don't have to worry about meeting a sort of unspoken quota each month to retain our position in the rankings.

Ultimately both sets of players win because they both get to role-play exactly what they wish in collaboration with other like-minded players.


Maybe I could agree with James, about optional rankings, but only if this rankings staying as game canon, and that unrealistic posts of that RPers who not recognize the rankings are illegitimate, and only the rankings-based, realistic RP got legitimacy. For example a topic: there is a war between two unrealistic RPers and Moderation couldn't punish them for using nuclear weapons or other not rankings-based stuff, but they cannot speak about their war in the World Congress for example, because they RP not legitimate, and in game canon it not happened (because they used unrealistic weapons or methods).

Don't misunderstood me, I am a convinced egalitarian, I believe that players should do what they want equally (and not just that players who have time, energy and experience to boost rankings), but I love PT because it is a realistic game. And that is not realistic that somebody work a nuclear weapon project for 30 posts, and then it get that nuclear weapons, however an another players, writing just a 6-sentence post and also get that nuclear weapons. I think if everybody, legitimately can get nuclear weapons (recognized by for example World Congress or other, Moderation-led in-game institution) that only make this game unrealistic and less enjoyable.

For the record, I have to say that I am more support the optional rankings than abolishing rankings. But of course for me the staying of status quo would be the best.
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic rankings

Postby Aquinas » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:42 pm

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8907

Economic Power Ranking
Underdeveloped:These countries are the Third World nations of Terra, whose colonial regimes abused them in order to profit in days gone by. They have often been intentionally undeveloped or developed in such a way as to divide the people therein for the benefit of the metropole. They struggle to provide even basic healthcare or education to their people, and they are highly reliant on international aid and charity. These nations do benefit from the continued focus on the extraction economy, and they often can sell their goods at lower prices than most more developed nations on the international market.

Weak: These countries have economies typically centered around the agricultural or extraction sectors. Though some manufacturing might exist, if it exists on any large scale it is likely to be internationally owned and thus unprofitable for the host nation. Locals might have set up subsistence economies that emphasize manufacturing in the household (cottage industries) to compensate for the lack. Generally, the people of these countries have poor education and health relative to more developed nations. The family unit and the community in these nations are likely to be very important to everyday life, and people are likely to feel much less alienated than in the more automated and high-paced medium and high development nations. Pollution is largely a result of agricultural and extraction byproducts, and these are typically water pollutants. These nations are very often net exporters, but the goods they export may not get them too much in return.

Average: These countries have economies centered most heavily on manufacturing or extraction-based industries, but they might also have some clusters of post-industrial industries along side some agricultural industry. These countries have lower life expectancy, less education, and less income (primarily GDP per capita) than high development nations, but they can also generally boast higher employment than the increasingly automated high development nations, a more citizenry more generally engaged in the political sphere than in the more alienated high development nations, etc. These nations likely are more likely to be heavy polluters than many other nations. Though they are generally less active on international markets than high development nations, their economies often center around export and so trade is relatively important.

Strong and Very Strong: These countries have economies typically centered around services and high tech industries. Culture and political goals can influence what types of industries are most influential, e.g. the agricultural or manufacturing sectors are still important for certain real-world high development economies, but these industries should be secondary and perhaps being phased out. More and higher quality education and health opportunities exist. These countries tend to have higher GDP per capita and median incomes, although inequality may still persist. These countries typically have higher standards of living, but can also experience the consequences of such an economy, such as increased alienation, higher unemployment as automation increases, the decreased importance of the family unit, etc. These countries tend to be active in international markets, but don't necessarily always experience trade surpluses.


As myself and others have stated previously, these descriptions no longer make sense now we are in a situation where not every nation has nearly exactly 100 million people.

It would make more sense to have a GDP per capita rating for each nation, or something similar.
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic rankings

Postby Rogue » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:13 pm

Aquinas wrote:http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8907

Economic Power Ranking
Underdeveloped:These countries are the Third World nations of Terra, whose colonial regimes abused them in order to profit in days gone by. They have often been intentionally undeveloped or developed in such a way as to divide the people therein for the benefit of the metropole. They struggle to provide even basic healthcare or education to their people, and they are highly reliant on international aid and charity. These nations do benefit from the continued focus on the extraction economy, and they often can sell their goods at lower prices than most more developed nations on the international market.

Weak: These countries have economies typically centered around the agricultural or extraction sectors. Though some manufacturing might exist, if it exists on any large scale it is likely to be internationally owned and thus unprofitable for the host nation. Locals might have set up subsistence economies that emphasize manufacturing in the household (cottage industries) to compensate for the lack. Generally, the people of these countries have poor education and health relative to more developed nations. The family unit and the community in these nations are likely to be very important to everyday life, and people are likely to feel much less alienated than in the more automated and high-paced medium and high development nations. Pollution is largely a result of agricultural and extraction byproducts, and these are typically water pollutants. These nations are very often net exporters, but the goods they export may not get them too much in return.

Average: These countries have economies centered most heavily on manufacturing or extraction-based industries, but they might also have some clusters of post-industrial industries along side some agricultural industry. These countries have lower life expectancy, less education, and less income (primarily GDP per capita) than high development nations, but they can also generally boast higher employment than the increasingly automated high development nations, a more citizenry more generally engaged in the political sphere than in the more alienated high development nations, etc. These nations likely are more likely to be heavy polluters than many other nations. Though they are generally less active on international markets than high development nations, their economies often center around export and so trade is relatively important.

Strong and Very Strong: These countries have economies typically centered around services and high tech industries. Culture and political goals can influence what types of industries are most influential, e.g. the agricultural or manufacturing sectors are still important for certain real-world high development economies, but these industries should be secondary and perhaps being phased out. More and higher quality education and health opportunities exist. These countries tend to have higher GDP per capita and median incomes, although inequality may still persist. These countries typically have higher standards of living, but can also experience the consequences of such an economy, such as increased alienation, higher unemployment as automation increases, the decreased importance of the family unit, etc. These countries tend to be active in international markets, but don't necessarily always experience trade surpluses.


As myself and others have stated previously, these descriptions no longer make sense now we are in a situation where not every nation has nearly exactly 100 million people.

It would make more sense to have a GDP per capita rating for each nation, or something similar.



To comment on this. I believe moderation is working on something like that. At least i put forward the idea and they seemed to be taking it on.
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