Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby Kubrick » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:00 pm

colonelvesica wrote:
Kubrick wrote:Are these still non-binding as was announced somewhere last year?

You are correct, still non-binding. While we encourage players to respect them, these rankings are a joint reflection of activity within the nation, and the quality of that activity in the view of Moderation. These are to be viewed as general guidelines, rather then enforced statistics.


Thanks. I will apply some modesty when restarting my roleplay in Vanuku. Just going to go above of what the current guidelines state because I have noticed the global affairs can use a liberal democracy to weigh the scales. Feels more productive than to spend 3 months preparing to join international RP.
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby Rogue » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:12 pm

I agree with the economic rankings and think they reflect the roleplay in the nations that it concerns.

With the military rankings im not quite sure.... This is mostly due to the fact that i feel they are somewhat out of balance. I can only reflect on it through my own view, playing in Deltaria. Since half march Deltaria has had a total of 60+ posts, largely revolving around military, political, geopolitical and economic roleplay. Liore in contrast, has had a total of 6 posts since the beginning of may, with some of those posts also including cultural RP. The same goes for Yingdala which has posted a lot, but most of it either concerned the deployment of troops overseas (which was on most occasions of a short lifespan) or internal politics.

I do realize there is also soft-power being mixed in but i would like a clarification as to the reasoning behind the military ranking in particular. It just feels a bit out of place.
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby colonelvesica » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:15 pm

Rogue wrote:I agree with the economic rankings and think they reflect the roleplay in the nations that it concerns.

With the military rankings im not quite sure.... This is mostly due to the fact that i feel they are somewhat out of balance. I can only reflect on it through my own view, playing in Deltaria. Since half march Deltaria has had a total of 60+ posts, largely revolving around military, political, geopolitical and economic roleplay. Liore in contrast, has had a total of 6 posts since the beginning of may, with some of those posts also including cultural RP. The same goes for Yingdala which has posted a lot, but most of it either concerned the deployment of troops overseas (which was on most occasions of a short lifespan) or internal politics.

I do realize there is also soft-power being mixed in but i would like a clarification as to the reasoning behind the military ranking in particular. It just feels a bit out of place.

As you noted, it's because the Military & Influence Rankings is now used as a combination of Soft and Hard Power; Endralon for example everyone is aware is not a military superpower, however they are exceptionally well connected in terms of economic weight and diplomacy. That is why they are viewed as a Regional Power, as an example.

Which nation are you asking about... or are you asking about all them?
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby robmark0000 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:18 pm

colonelvesica wrote:Most of Endralon's economic Role Play is focused on what it's corporations do overseas and in other nations, rather then how they are improving and expanding the Endralon economy locally. Endralon is one of the most connected nations, economically, in Terra and it's corporations are everywhere, and it does have an impact on expanding the over all economy. However, most of the jobs they would be generating would be in foreign nations where they are primarily mostly active, based on your Role Play.

BOPA for example buys a lot of oil... but most of that doesn't go back to Endralon for refinement, it goes from one port, and then it is moved to another nation as a direct sale, so Endralon doesn't really benefit from that type of transaction. This is just an example.

As we stated, you are growing, and arguably are on the verge of becoming a Very Strong Economy, just not there quite yet.

I see. I think you are making a clear point, however I think I could refute it, if you allow me.

Endralon's local economy is built on the 25 Steps Program, a giant RP event from the past, which serves as a stable base for the economic RP in Endralon (this gave her the "Strong Economy" title earlier). This allows that I can focus on the foreign expansion of corporations, rather than the local economy, which is already kinda done. There are still some posts dealing with the "mainland" economy, for example internal airlines, internal heavy industry, internal construction wave, internal public transportation, internal whaling trade or foreign corporations making jobs in Endralon, just to mention some. There are many more, I could link all of them if you want.

The BOPA analogy is quite simplified for me, however I would highlight that (1) BOPA obviously pays tax for the Directorial Republic, even if just 5% (2) they're constantly paying back their loans for the purely Endralon-based Financial Bank of Liberty which later of course turn that money into new investments and new jobs. So even if BOPA is a company that is purely made to make the Boros richer and richer, it has some aspects that significantly help the Endralonian economy.

Also I don't know it is helpful or not, however I wrote this in the first episode of the Crowded Hugamest:
robmark0000 wrote:The coffee seller was a typical lower middle class Endralonian. They had an arguably decent family undertaking, like the small coffee shop for this one, and than they immediately thought they're some Want Street CEOs "building up the Directorial Republic". Since they were the majority of the society, the lower middle class, the support for the existing hypercapitalist system was stable as iron; the working class was noticeably small compared to other countries, since the Endralonian companies usually preferred foreign, cheaper workforce across the world, while the middle classes had their wealth and capital to operate own undertakings thanks to the extremely great amount of money entering Endralon every single year. Even Mizesz Lajos couldn't plan the system better.

I am not an economist, by any means, however I think if something, then my RP in Endralon deserves to be upgraded Very Strong economy finally. It is a fact that every second post of mine is economic, since the summer of 2020 - and I have a 3.08 posts per day rate, I say without flexing. As I wrote above, the small working class is in poor conditions, but employed, the wide middle class has own undertakings so they can contract with larger corporations or foreign ones, while the upper class is the richest corporate elit on Terra. This sounds like the characteristics of a hypercapitalist, very strong economy to me :)
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby colonelvesica » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:30 pm

robmark0000 wrote:
colonelvesica wrote:Most of Endralon's economic Role Play is focused on what it's corporations do overseas and in other nations, rather then how they are improving and expanding the Endralon economy locally. Endralon is one of the most connected nations, economically, in Terra and it's corporations are everywhere, and it does have an impact on expanding the over all economy. However, most of the jobs they would be generating would be in foreign nations where they are primarily mostly active, based on your Role Play.

BOPA for example buys a lot of oil... but most of that doesn't go back to Endralon for refinement, it goes from one port, and then it is moved to another nation as a direct sale, so Endralon doesn't really benefit from that type of transaction. This is just an example.

As we stated, you are growing, and arguably are on the verge of becoming a Very Strong Economy, just not there quite yet.

I see. I think you are making a clear point, however I think I could refute it, if you allow me.

Endralon's local economy is built on the 25 Steps Program, a giant RP event from the past, which serves as a stable base for the economic RP in Endralon (this gave her the "Strong Economy" title earlier). This allows that I can focus on the foreign expansion of corporations, rather than the local economy, which is already kinda done. There are still some posts dealing with the "mainland" economy, for example internal airlines, internal heavy industry, internal construction wave, internal public transportation, internal whaling trade or foreign corporations making jobs in Endralon, just to mention some. There are many more, I could link all of them if you want.

The BOPA analogy is quite simplified for me, however I would highlight that (1) BOPA obviously pays tax for the Directorial Republic, even if just 5% (2) they're constantly paying back their loans for the purely Endralon-based Financial Bank of Liberty which later of course turn that money into new investments and new jobs. So even if BOPA is a company that is purely made to make the Boros richer and richer, it has some aspects that significantly help the Endralonian economy.

Also I don't know it is helpful or not, however I wrote this in the first episode of the Crowded Hugamest:
robmark0000 wrote:The coffee seller was a typical lower middle class Endralonian. They had an arguably decent family undertaking, like the small coffee shop for this one, and than they immediately thought they're some Want Street CEOs "building up the Directorial Republic". Since they were the majority of the society, the lower middle class, the support for the existing hypercapitalist system was stable as iron; the working class was noticeably small compared to other countries, since the Endralonian companies usually preferred foreign, cheaper workforce across the world, while the middle classes had their wealth and capital to operate own undertakings thanks to the extremely great amount of money entering Endralon every single year. Even Mizesz Lajos couldn't plan the system better.

I am not an economist, by any means, however I think if something, then my RP in Endralon deserves to be upgraded Very Strong economy finally. It is a fact that every second post of mine is economic, since the summer of 2020 - and I have a 3.08 posts per day rate, I say without flexing. As I wrote above, the small working class is in poor conditions, but employed, the wide middle class has own undertakings so they can contract with larger corporations or foreign ones, while the upper class is the richest corporate elit on Terra. This sounds like the characteristics of a hypercapitalist, very strong economy to me :)

We'll consider this and get back to you; thanks for the feedback and for the links
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby robmark0000 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:34 pm

colonelvesica wrote:We'll consider this and get back to you; thanks for the feedback and for the links

You deserve a compliment for this, because in my player career, you are the first Moderator who actually considering changing the Rankings decisions because of players' feedback. GG!
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby Rogue » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:45 pm

colonelvesica wrote:
Rogue wrote:I agree with the economic rankings and think they reflect the roleplay in the nations that it concerns.

With the military rankings im not quite sure.... This is mostly due to the fact that i feel they are somewhat out of balance. I can only reflect on it through my own view, playing in Deltaria. Since half march Deltaria has had a total of 60+ posts, largely revolving around military, political, geopolitical and economic roleplay. Liore in contrast, has had a total of 6 posts since the beginning of may, with some of those posts also including cultural RP. The same goes for Yingdala which has posted a lot, but most of it either concerned the deployment of troops overseas (which was on most occasions of a short lifespan) or internal politics.

I do realize there is also soft-power being mixed in but i would like a clarification as to the reasoning behind the military ranking in particular. It just feels a bit out of place.

As you noted, it's because the Military & Influence Rankings is now used as a combination of Soft and Hard Power; Endralon for example everyone is aware is not a military superpower, however they are exceptionally well connected in terms of economic weight and diplomacy. That is why they are viewed as a Regional Power, as an example.

Which nation are you asking about... or are you asking about all them?


Well im just asking what exactly is used to measure soft power? Because if its as vague as i think it might be, then it is very much prone to interpetation. How i see "Influence" in the Military & Influence ranking is basically how much diplomatic, cultural and military influence does a nation have on a global scale. When i look at your example of Endralon for example, you could argue that their influence is very much limited to Artania, at least diplomatically, as has been shown in the past with its tendency to intervene diplomatically in Artania more often then in other parts of Terra. If Endralon its influence comes primarily from its economic dealings abroad (done through its corporations) doesnt that fit into the economic ranking more? as its economy is interconnected and thus, grows. If soft power means influence in a wide variety of fields then i think Deltaria would, at this moment, be a Great Power and the same goes for Yingdala. Deltaria has significant diplomatic influence through the MEA (Economic in nature but also a diplomatic body) with which it has maintained significant influence/peace in Majatra, through its geopolitical moves (establishing a base in Cobura, projecting power near Sekowo, involving itself in strategic partnerships etc.) or through its creation of the CPIS, as a way to strengthen its power bloc. And all that is on top of the many posts and military developments.

So the concrete question for me really is:
What is soft power according to moderation and how is the balance between military and influence determined
How will moderation make sure that soft power isnt indirectly economic power?
Last edited by Rogue on Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby Liukupukki » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:49 pm

I think Bianjie should be considered weak economically instead of underdeveloped. I've done RP around the resort, which is a big boost to the economy, as well as opened up trade and cooperation with foreign countries and companies. I don't think it's an issue, as the rankings are not mandatory, but just my two cents on it.
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby colonelvesica » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:08 pm

Liukupukki wrote:I think Bianjie should be considered weak economically instead of underdeveloped. I've done RP around the resort, which is a big boost to the economy, as well as opened up trade and cooperation with foreign countries and companies. I don't think it's an issue, as the rankings are not mandatory, but just my two cents on it.

Send off some links just to show the RP and I'll discuss it with Chitin
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Re: Feedback: Dynamic Rankings

Postby robmark0000 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:13 pm

colonelvesica wrote:Send off some links just to show the RP and I'll discuss it with Chitin

I can second Liukupukki's statement and I can confirm Endralon invested heavily in Bianje. Here is a collection of my series of posts about those deals.
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