Third World Changes

General discussions about the Particracy Classic including role-play planning and suggestions.

Re: Third World Changes

Postby Rogue » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:59 pm

I agree with Reddy in this. The current approach is good. Especially since i believe some time ago we came to the conclusion that PT game time is going quicker, but development time thus slows down to accompany for that. Im sattisfied with the current approach. Though i understand Pragma's concerns and wishes. Personally a name change to forum-based nations seems perfectly okay to me. Better then Third World
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Pragma » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:42 pm

I did not suggest Vesica and Farsun would ever cap the ability of the former colonies because they're primarily non-white, but the idea that the vast majority of the game's African-culture-based nations and many of the asian-culture-based ones should remain permanently poor and powerless elicits a bit of a 'yikes' from me. I never suggested that's the motivation for it, but it is something we really ought to keep in mind.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm

QV73 wrote:I did not suggest Vesica and Farsun would ever cap the ability of the former colonies because they're primarily non-white, but the idea that the vast majority of the game's African-culture-based nations and many of the asian-culture-based ones should remain permanently poor and powerless elicits a bit of a 'yikes' from me. I never suggested that's the motivation for it, but it is something we really ought to keep in mind.


I'll respond in a calm a deliberate manner to the absolutely INSANE accusation with this: that has ZERO to do with it and any further accusations of such will not be met with kindness. That is absolutely out of line and totally incorrect.

As for the rest of the discussion, we're content with the slightly different power scale that TW nations. Vesica and I are content with no TW nation becoming a Great Power because we believe that should be reserved for the in-game, "player" nations as that is the primary function of the game. The addition of these former colonies and territories was always meant as an addition to the game in terms of adding in areas where the RP is primary focus versus "game mechanics" such as elections, party management, etc. We've kind of "capped" the TW nations at being regional powers which we feel for the TW nations is enough, does this mean that it cannot change? No but it means that in the near future we don't have the intention of a TW "Great Power".
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Pragma » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:04 pm

I don't understand how you can interpret my comment as an 'accusation'. I specifically stated that of course you're not wanting to keep these nations down because they're culturally african. I haven't made any accusations of any kind. I simply said that having the vast majority of the game's African nations be on the lower end of the economic rankings and military rankings, even thought they have been decolonised for over a thousand IG years, is a bit of an oversight when I think economically developed African-based nations would be an asset to the game culturally and RP-wise.

If you have gathered from anything I've said that I'm calling you a racist then I encourage you to reread, and reinforce my repeated, clear statement thats I have not at any time made any accusations about personal racism.

As for the inability of the TW nations to become great powers, I would point out to you that Dorvik, Lourenne and Kazulia might as well be TW nations since only one person ever plays in them. These nations are all great powers.
Last edited by Pragma on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:09 pm

"decolonized for over a thousand IG years" doesn't equate necessarily the same way for TW nations and "player" nations. TW nations have had far less RP, many of them going long periods of time being totally empty and devoid of any significant events. As for the countries that you've mentioned they've had DOZENS of players who contributed HUNDREDS of posts and articles to build them up to where they are, so that is not an equal footing regardless of current player count or status. It is completely different.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Lucipher » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm

Auditorii wrote:As for the rest of the discussion, we're content with the slightly different power scale that TW nations. Vesica and I are content with no TW nation becoming a Great Power because we believe that should be reserved for the in-game, "player" nations as that is the primary function of the game. The addition of these former colonies and territories was always meant as an addition to the game in terms of adding in areas where the RP is primary focus versus "game mechanics" such as elections, party management, etc. We've kind of "capped" the TW nations at being regional powers which we feel for the TW nations is enough, does this mean that it cannot change? No but it means that in the near future we don't have the intention of a TW "Great Power".

Personally I'd disagree with that sentiment at the end there, that no forum-based nation should be of great power status. If the person doing to rp on a TW nation works and works to get it to what would be in the first world nations as "great power", but was unable to achieve that status, it seems a little unfair and ridiculous. Obviously everyone wants their nation to be a great power a la Kazulia, Dorvik, or Hutori but it does but a damper on the enthusiasm to rp in those nations. I think a better solution would be to have a one- or two-nation cap on TW great powers, which would help focus the great powers in the FW but also give motivation and competitiveness for TW nations.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:12 pm

Lucipher wrote:
Auditorii wrote:As for the rest of the discussion, we're content with the slightly different power scale that TW nations. Vesica and I are content with no TW nation becoming a Great Power because we believe that should be reserved for the in-game, "player" nations as that is the primary function of the game. The addition of these former colonies and territories was always meant as an addition to the game in terms of adding in areas where the RP is primary focus versus "game mechanics" such as elections, party management, etc. We've kind of "capped" the TW nations at being regional powers which we feel for the TW nations is enough, does this mean that it cannot change? No but it means that in the near future we don't have the intention of a TW "Great Power".

Personally I'd disagree with that sentiment at the end there, that no forum-based nation should be of great power status. If the person doing to rp on a TW nation works and works to get it to what would be in the first world nations as "great power", but was unable to achieve that status, it seems a little unfair and ridiculous. Obviously everyone wants their nation to be a great power a la Kazulia, Dorvik, or Hutori but it does but a damper on the enthusiasm to rp in those nations. I think a better solution would be to have a one- or two-nation cap on TW great powers, which would help focus the great powers in the FW but also give motivation and competitiveness for TW nations.


As I stated 2 posts above: "We've kind of "capped" the TW nations at being regional powers which we feel for the TW nations is enough, does this mean that it cannot change? No but it means that in the near future we don't have the intention of a TW "Great Power"."

I can tell you that from Vesica and I's discussions none of the currently occupied TW nations "rise" to Great Power status nor do we believe that they have adequate RP to support as such.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Pragma » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:15 pm

Auditorii wrote:"decolonized for over a thousand IG years" doesn't equate necessarily the same way for TW nations and "player" nations. TW nations have had far less RP, many of them going long periods of time being totally empty and devoid of any significant events. As for the countries that you've mentioned they've had DOZENS of players who contributed HUNDREDS of posts and articles to build them up to where they are, so that is not an equal footing regardless of current player count or status. It is completely different.


That's a reasonable point, I'm certainly not stating these nations don't have a long climb ahead of them to get to parity with the non-colonised ones. I just think having this layer in the rankings be completely inaccessible to the far-east nations is unnecessary and may discourage people in these nations from investing their time into good development RP. Dorvik has historically had major parties that were not Farsun-controlled, but for hundreds of IG years has been dominated by Farsun and Farsun alone. Similar story in Kazulia and Lourenne. You're a great RPer but if your concern is accessibility to as broad a range of players as possible for great powers, I simply don't get ya.

Why not just not upgrade anybody this time? Why remove the layer? It seems a bit excessive to me.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Luis1p » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:26 pm

I mean, being the player in Lourenne, and the only player in there for most of the time, I don't see why someone playing in the TW nations shouldn't be given an equal opportunity and chance to rise to a higher ranking, even up to a GP.

I'm not saying that they can't rise at the moment or don't have that opportunity. But perhaps the limits/cap on the TW rankings could be changed or just eliminated. Yes, it definitely is a very difficult job to try and get an underdeveloped nation to great power status. But I mean, if I could do it, even with the broken IG systems that I don't even use, why shouldn't someone else do so with a TW nation?

I'm all for improving the current rankings of the TW system and eliminating any of the caps in future should everyone agree on it. In my preference, nothing should really stand in the way of a player who is willing to RP to a certain status
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Pragma » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:28 pm

Luis1p wrote:I mean, being the player in Lourenne, and the only player in there for most of the time, I don't see why someone playing in the TW nations shouldn't be given an equal opportunity and chance to rise to a higher ranking, even up to a GP.

I'm not saying that they can't rise at the moment or don't have that opportunity. But perhaps the limits/cap on the TW rankings could be changed or just eliminated. Yes, it definitely is a very difficult job to try and get an underdeveloped nation to great power status. But I mean, if I could do it, even with the broken IG systems that I don't even use, why shouldn't someone else do so with a TW nation?

I'm all for improving the current rankings of the TW system and eliminating any of the caps in future should everyone agree on it. In my preference, nothing should really stand in the way of a player who is willing to RP to a certain status


100% agree
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