Third World Changes

Talk and plan things about the game with other players.

Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:35 am

Greetings all!

Some of you may know, some of you may not know....Particracy is a large world filled with playable nations where you can compete in elections, pass budgets, fight over legislation and generally be involved in the everyday political processes of a country. Particracy Classic also has an open area to its east known collectively as the "Third World" the Third World are the former colonies of the Particracy nations (many of them once possessed colonies if you didn't know!). The Third World provides the ability for players to take total control over one of these nations. When the Third World was released it was initially met with great success, however some players mentioned that the cultures and the language choices that the Third World had were difficult to access. Some languages or cultures were dead or possessed no easy translation. We've sought to change this and we've got some other plans for the Third World coming soon. With that, we have a list of changes that players are welcome to start RPing with. If you wish to take control over a Third World nation please post HERE. Please note that the Third World register is not up to date given the need to update a lot of national descriptions. Please note that the situation is still fluid and somethings are being worked out. Things might be slightly changed/ret-conned as we work out in-game names, real-life equivalents, etc.

North Dovani - Igbo and Hausa (Inspirations: West African states outside of Nigeria, Niger, Chad, Mauritania)
↳ Degalogesa will be absorbed by North Dovani to form "North Dovani"
Cifutingan – African Arab (Inspirations: Sudan, South Sudan)
New Englia – Irish and Luthorian (Inspirations: Northern Ireland)
Suyu Llaqta – African (Inspirations: Democratic Republic of the Congo, Congo)
Kurageri – African (Inspirations: Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda)
Liore – African (Inspirations: Kenya)
Istapali – African and African Arab (Inspiration: Chad, Cameroon, Central African Republic)
Utari Mosir – Japanese and Russian
Ostland – Japanese and German
New Verham – Mongolian, Dutch and Jelbek
Midway – Malagasy (Inspiration: Madagascar)
Statrica – Somali (Inspiration: Somalia) with very tiny Croatian colony on western coast
Ntoto – Filipino (Inspiration: Philippines)
Bianjie – Japanese, Manchu and Bhutanese (Inspiration: Manchuria and Bhutan)
Rapa Pile – Tamil (Inspiration: Sri Lanka, Maldives)
Utembo – Tibetan (Inspiration: Independent Tibet)
Hanzen – Thai (Inspiration: Thailand)
Kimlien – Vietnamese (Inspiration: Vietnamese)
Xsampa – Pashto (Inspiration: Afghanistan)
Medina – Urdu (Inspiration: Pakistan)
New Alduria – French and Haitian Creole (Inspiration: Caribbean islands, namely Haiti)
Noumonde – French and Malay (Inspiration: Malaysia)
Temania – Indonesian (Inspiration: Indonesia)
Tropica – Polynesian and Luthorian (Inspiration: New Zealand)
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Wu Han » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:38 pm

Very in favour of the changes overall!

Just very small note: as folks might have noticed I have begun a project of... erm... re-contextualizing the history of Vorona. In so doing, I've done some research on ancient RP and such. To make my project work cohesively with these changes, and to reflect the history of the region, I would propose also including a notable number of Orinco (Mayan) and a much smaller minority of Kunikata (Japanese) in Statrica. While I certainly agree it should remain majority Somali in culture, that coastal portion of Statrica was long occupied by Orinco Kingdoms and the Orinco Empire prior to colonization. Plus it shares a border with the Orinco regions within Lourenne.

I know this isn't the place to apply, but I'll offer to take control of Statrica to implement this through RP.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:02 am

Wu Han wrote:Very in favour of the changes overall!

Just very small note: as folks might have noticed I have begun a project of... erm... re-contextualizing the history of Vorona. In so doing, I've done some research on ancient RP and such. To make my project work cohesively with these changes, and to reflect the history of the region, I would propose also including a notable number of Orinco (Mayan) and a much smaller minority of Kunikata (Japanese) in Statrica. While I certainly agree it should remain majority Somali in culture, that coastal portion of Statrica was long occupied by Orinco Kingdoms and the Orinco Empire prior to colonization. Plus it shares a border with the Orinco regions within Lourenne.

I know this isn't the place to apply, but I'll offer to take control of Statrica to implement this through RP.


It's good to have someone who has long been heralded as a "cultural master" of PT approve of this. It took me sometime to get it to where it made sense (in a PT sort of way) but I appreciate it.

I will gladly add in some to coastal Statrica, likely replacing the Croatian.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby jamescfm » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:38 pm

All of these look pretty good to me, especially in terms of improving accessibility (and so hopefully engagement). Throughout my time in Particracy, I've been involved with the Third World a lot and just finding translations and name generation tools has been difficult in the past. I think the only question I would raise is what the reasoning is for having Russian in Utari Mosir? It's quite far from Trigunia and I'm not aware of any colonial connection. Is it supposed to be the indigenous peoples of the Russian Far East because I suppose that would make more sense? Overall this is a positive step I feel.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:19 pm

jamescfm wrote:All of these look pretty good to me, especially in terms of improving accessibility (and so hopefully engagement). Throughout my time in Particracy, I've been involved with the Third World a lot and just finding translations and name generation tools has been difficult in the past. I think the only question I would raise is what the reasoning is for having Russian in Utari Mosir? It's quite far from Trigunia and I'm not aware of any colonial connection. Is it supposed to be the indigenous peoples of the Russian Far East because I suppose that would make more sense? Overall this is a positive step I feel.


The decision to include Russian was mostly for that exact purpose, the more Russian Far East feel. Quite frankly the pervasiveness of Japanese, German and what not felt a little odd given some of the pre-game history which says that Trigunia was a power.

Perhaps that'll be a new project for myself establishing a concise, single pre-game history.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Sat May 02, 2020 1:47 am

As an update to this, after being beaten silly by Wu Han, I'm going to just make some announcements

1. Manchurian will remain in Bianjie but the Bhutanese will be removed from Bianjie;

2. In Bianjie the lingua franca will be Yingdalan (Chinese) with Kunikata (Japanese) as a close second but players are suggested to do their best to find Manchurian words and the like;

3. Ntoto will no longer be Filipino, that will go solely to Drania/Dranland/Dankuk/Kyoseon;

4. Hanzen and Ntoto will form a new singular state which will have the following ethnic groups: Burmese/Bamar, Bhutanese, Khmer/Cambodia, Thai and Laotian;

5. Wu Han will have to do the groundwork to make it all work and what not for PT lore.

Thanks all.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby jamescfm » Tue May 05, 2020 6:19 pm

Let me preface this by saying that I am effectively trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted, the changes proposed here have already been implemented and players have begun engaging with Third World countries on this basis.

In spite of this, I was hoping that Moderation might reconsider the case of Noumonde, the country with probably the most engagement in the Third World over a long period of time. Prior to these changes, the country was split between a French and Malagasy culture. The Malagasy was moved to Midway and replaced with Malay, a totally different and almost completely unrelated culture, but the French retained.

While I understand that in some cases such a change might be justified, I do not believe so in this case. Malagasy is not a particularly inaccessible culture (and I think Moderation will agree since they retained it elsewhere) and there is room for Malay to exist elsewhere in the game. The role-play that was produced around Noumonde is not low-quality and I would argue it is some of the most interesting that has been produced at all since the Third World has operated in the current manner. As I said above, I probably am too late to the issue here and so I understand that the options are limited but I do have a few proposals that might fix the problem.

The first proposal would be simply to switch the Malagasy in Midway and the Malay in Midway. Malay wouldn't be too out of place in Midway. Although it would be unusual to have Malay and Indonesian so far apart, it is not beyond the realm of credibility. The second proposal would be to move Malay to New Alduria, the Haitian culture to Midway and the Malagasy back to Noumonde. Doing so would keep Malay and Indonesian in close proximity. Although it would some override previous role-play in New Alduria, this is limited compared to that in Noumonde. The final option would be to somehow combine the Malay and Malagasy in Noumonde and find something else to place in Midway. This option would be essentially "a best of both worlds" but may be more hassle than it is worth.

Personally I think the second proposal might be the best approach but (to continue with equine metaphors), I do not have a horse in this race. I hope Moderation will take this into consideration and I'd welcome feedback from other players, particularly Locke1342, who is the current controller of Noumonde. I appreciate that you may have to rework some of your role-play if these changes happened but I am confident it would not be totally overriden.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Auditorii » Tue May 05, 2020 8:29 pm

jamescfm wrote:Let me preface this by saying that I am effectively trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted, the changes proposed here have already been implemented and players have begun engaging with Third World countries on this basis.

In spite of this, I was hoping that Moderation might reconsider the case of Noumonde, the country with probably the most engagement in the Third World over a long period of time. Prior to these changes, the country was split between a French and Malagasy culture. The Malagasy was moved to Midway and replaced with Malay, a totally different and almost completely unrelated culture, but the French retained.

While I understand that in some cases such a change might be justified, I do not believe so in this case. Malagasy is not a particularly inaccessible culture (and I think Moderation will agree since they retained it elsewhere) and there is room for Malay to exist elsewhere in the game. The role-play that was produced around Noumonde is not low-quality and I would argue it is some of the most interesting that has been produced at all since the Third World has operated in the current manner. As I said above, I probably am too late to the issue here and so I understand that the options are limited but I do have a few proposals that might fix the problem.

The first proposal would be simply to switch the Malagasy in Midway and the Malay in Midway. Malay wouldn't be too out of place in Midway. Although it would be unusual to have Malay and Indonesian so far apart, it is not beyond the realm of credibility. The second proposal would be to move Malay to New Alduria, the Haitian culture to Midway and the Malagasy back to Noumonde. Doing so would keep Malay and Indonesian in close proximity. Although it would some override previous role-play in New Alduria, this is limited compared to that in Noumonde. The final option would be to somehow combine the Malay and Malagasy in Noumonde and find something else to place in Midway. This option would be essentially "a best of both worlds" but may be more hassle than it is worth.

Personally I think the second proposal might be the best approach but (to continue with equine metaphors), I do not have a horse in this race. I hope Moderation will take this into consideration and I'd welcome feedback from other players, particularly Locke1342, who is the current controller of Noumonde. I appreciate that you may have to rework some of your role-play if these changes happened but I am confident it would not be totally overriden.


As we discussed via Discord, I'd like to see Locke's thoughts and opinions on this as he is the player in Noumonde.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Locke1342 » Wed May 06, 2020 9:04 am

I have to be honest I am rather resistant to the idea about changing Noumonde's culture completely again. This is partially because of the fact that I have already been discussing potential future Role Plays with other players with Noumonde as it is, and have thus spent quite a bit of time researching/making maps etc. but also because I do not believe that changing cultures for a third time, especially given we would be imposing the Malay culture on another nation which has an established role play before would be beneficial overall to the RP.

Naturally in beginning the RP in Noumonde I have read through the previous posts, and whilst like you say it is quality well-developed role-play, overall it is fairly inconsequential in terms of the shaping of world history. As part of setting up Noumonde, I have tried to incorporate as much as I feel is possible from the previous role play, as can be demonstrated here: https://particracy.fandom.com/wiki/Noumonde#History

Obviously the wiki page isn't canonical but the way I have gone about setting up is to assume that the events happened as stated, but with Malay people rather than Malagasy people. I have been deliberately vague with this, and have further made sure to place a bit of a gap between the two with the period of "federal isolationism". That being said the Malay people can be effectively placed over the Malagasy people in for most of the role play with the exception of perhaps the Famadihana, which itself could probably be reasonably replaced with a South-East Asian custom of some variety.

That all being said, during the process of writing my opposition to changing Noumonde's culture, your point about the Malaysian and Indonesian countries being next to each did interest me, insofar as I wouldn't believe it to be much of a stretch to retcon in an event regarding some sort of Temanian migration into Noumonde over the 200 years following the death of King Tristan and replacing the Malagasy people who escaped to Midway (there would have to be some justification for why they chose Midway when it is quite far away but I am sure it would be possible) as a way to explain the shift in peoples. There is the difficultly of looking at the relationship between the Temanians and the Canrillaise but given I have RPed with a limited number of Canrillaise anyway this shouldn't be too great of a problem. Whilst such a drastic change over a short-ish period of time, I think that this might be quite interesting to work with (especially if anyone wanted to take up Midway in the future), and importantly doesn't impact any of the current events happening nor the previous ones.

Therefore I would be interested in seeing what you think about this role-play fix to the situation rather than an artificial OOC shift, that I think would unnecessarily mix up and confuse cultures right at the time that people are getting active in the Third World.
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Re: Third World Changes

Postby Locke1342 » Wed May 06, 2020 9:42 am

Just to further justify my suggestion, there was a civil war in Temania just 15 years following the death of the last RPed Canrillaise King of Noumonde. This would allow us to justify the movement of Mondesian people out of Temania as refugees of such a war who ended up forcing the Malgy people out of Noumonde
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